Category: Interviews on The Social Academic

  • Career Clarity for PhDs with Career Coach Dr. Jen Polk

    Career Clarity for PhDs with Career Coach Dr. Jen Polk

    Are you on the job market or seeking a new career? Professors and researchers, this interview is especially for academics considering leaving academia (or if you’re forced to leave unexpectedly). I’m happy career coach, Dr. Jennifer Polk of From PhD to Life is back for this 2025 episode.

    Jen’s been on The Social Academic to chat with me back in 2022 when we talked about Informational Interviews. She also joined me for a YouTube live in 2020 where she answered the question, What Is Networking? This year especially, mid-career and senior academics may be pivoting away from their more traditional academic career path. Many researchers and scientists in the United States of America have been let go. While there’s many resources out there to help with your next steps, such as the From PhD to Life blog, you may want personalized support from a career coach and community. We talk about Jen’s PhD Career Clarity Program which you may find helpful.

    While we talk about a service for academics in this and other interviews on The Social Academic, I don’t receive any gift or monies if you choose to move forward with Jen’s PhD Career Clarity Program. I share people including Dr. Jen Polk with you, because I trust and recommend her to clients and friends.

    In this interview

    Jennifer Van Alstyne [‘Jennifer’]: Hi! Welcome back to The Social Academic, a podcast, blog, YouTube channel about online presence for professors, researchers, PhDs, people who are in academia. Dr. Jennifer Polk is back with me today. She’s someone who we featured here on The Social Academic in the past. She’s been live on the YouTube channel, but this time we have new things to talk about. I mean, the social media landscape has changed in 2025. Jen, would you start by introducing yourself? 

    Dr. Jennifer Polk [‘Jen’]: Oh no, I’m on the spot!

    Yes, I’m Jen Polk. My business is called From PhD to Life. I work with professors, postdocs, and other PhDs who are ready to leave academia and go somewhere where they will be respected and valued and all that good stuff, even if they don’t yet know what the heck that could ever be. I’ll help them figure it out.

    Jennifer: I love that. You’re a career coach who’s like, you’re not new to this space, right? You’ve been doing this for a while.

    Jen: A while, indeed. What’s a while? More than 10 years? More than 10 years, yes.

    Jennifer: Amazing. 

    Jen: Yes. Someone called me the OG PhD career coach. Am I saying that right? OG, is that what the kids say? 

    Jennifer: OG, yeah. I love it. I love it. I’m curious because you’re actually like an early social media user, early online user. How have you seen things shifting or changing in social media in the past year or so?

    Jen: Big sigh, sob, hysterics. [Sighs]. Okay, one way of putting it is Twitter is dead to me. I mean, Twitter is dead, right? Twitter is dead to me and Twitter is dead. And now that was a big problem. And please interrupt me when I go on and on and on about this. Most of my clients the last few years found me via Twitter. Not 100%, but that was a big place where people got to know me and eventually work with me. And that was true for individuals who wanted to work with me as like for career coaching, guidance on their own individual job searches, as well as the folks who work in universities and bring in speakers to do workshops and presentations. And so a lot of my business happened in part on Twitter.

    Now, I don’t even go to Twitter anymore. So just for me personally, Elon Musk has ruined my life. No, I’m being dramatic. Yeah, just like that’s a small but sort of huge thing for me when it comes to social media. I mean, that’s the first thing that comes to mind.

    Jennifer: I’m curious, like, gosh, you’ve been such a prolific Twitter user. Are you finding community elsewhere? Like, are you using other platforms the way you used to use Twitter or what?

    Jen: Yeah, it’s a good question. And I don’t have a good answer because my answer right now is also a sigh. And I am on Bluesky, but I haven’t quite started using it for my career. Let’s put it that way. So it’s not that I’m not using it at all, but I tend to go on there more as like a personal, I want to share a thing. And ideally, if it was, if it made sense to spend the time, it would have a mix of like me as a person and me as a business owner that you could work with. That is how I always used Twitter. And Bluesky is different in terms of reach and engagement. That is not just because I’m bad at it, but that was like a deliberate, you know, that’s how it works. 

    Jennifer: I think that’s so helpful to share with people. I mean, like you are, you have a huge following on social media. Whether Twitter is dead or not, like people still follow you there. And yet on Bluesky, what was working for you in the past, maybe it doesn’t feel the same, maybe it doesn’t get the same engagement. The same thing on different platforms can have different results. And that’s something helpful for people to know when someone has an audience size of yours is still experiencing that, I don’t know, that frustration.

    Jen: Yeah. And something else that might be interesting for your audience is that I have mixed feelings, I mean, I have mixed feelings about so many things in life, but including LinkedIn as well. I go through like seasons with LinkedIn. Last year, what is it, 2025 now. So back in 2024, for the first almost six months of the year, most days of the week, I would say I was posting on LinkedIn. And yeah, I did that consistently for those first six months and I got out of the habit and I’m much more sporadic now and I want to like it, but it’s just never, it’s just never really done it for me the way it’s . . . oh, lament, lament for Twitter of old.

    I don’t know. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know social media, you’re not doing it for me, but I want to like it.

    Jennifer: Mm. Hmm. Now, there are so many job seekers right now, whether they’ve been laid off in federal government and their PhDs or their academics who are finding funding issues that are now unexpectedly needing to search for jobsl for their financial future. I’m curious, what we just talked about in terms of social media, how might that impact job seekers? 

    Jen: Man, it’s such a scary time. One thing that comes to mind for the impact on job seekers is folks that do have jobs in the US federal government, in the US in general maybe, in universities, I think they might want to be a little bit more circumspect if that’s the right word. A little more cautious about what they put out there. I mean, we’re reading like insane things. Who knows if they’re true, but like, is Grok reading your tweets? Is DOGE [Department of Government Efficiency], are the teenagers surrounding Musk like turning the AI on your tweets and deciding who to fire that way? Like, I don’t mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think there’s some evidence that, anyways, I think people might be right to be a little bit more cautious about what they put out there. Even Bluesky, my understanding is that Bluesky is open. So you don’t even, I mean, even though it’s not owned by bad faith actors, foreign actors, it’s still maybe, you still want to maybe be a bit cautious about it. I don’t know if that’s what you were getting at with your question, but that’s one thing. That’s not the only thing, but I think that’s one thing that folks might want to think about.

    Jennifer: Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that because that’s a question that’s been on my mind lately as professors who, this actually came up in a workshop, have sensitive topics. That was a good way of putting it. Sensitive in the sense that if they talk about it, the thing that they do in their research, in their work every day, they could attract hate. They could attract political controversy, even if they’re just posting about a new publication. And so this is actually something I brought up in a social media mastermind group that I’m in monthly because I wanted to hear how other people, how strategists who work on social media with companies and different agencies are handling the political divide. And it was really great to be open about the worries and fears that some professors are having right now. Yeah, everyone kind of said, “Airing on the side of caution.” Airing on the side of facts doesn’t even always work. It’s not enough anymore. And so really thinking about protecting yourself and having that feeling of safety, if you’re unsure before you post, maybe don’t do it. Ask a friend to look it over in advance. It’s hard.

    Jen: I hate it, right? I hate it. I don’t want this. I have a client who is, well, let me not give away too many details, but who is a target of bad actors, right-wing bad actors as a person that shows up on lists, the kind of lists that you don’t want to be on and that is just total BS, right? And her solution, one solution anyways, to continue to be a public intellectual, to write because that’s important to her, is that she has changed the name that she uses. So it’s still kind of basically the same name, but the addition of like an initial or, I forget exactly what it was, the decision, but like of using like the first name instead of the middle name kind of thing as just one, it just makes it easier to differentiate herself from the person who’s being targeted on the internet. And I thought that was a nice, you know, partial kind of practical thing that was in her control, you know, because she can’t scrub the web, doesn’t have any control over that, but she could, you know, add an initial or anyways, you know what I’m saying? 

    Jennifer: I really like that. That’s such a, it’s a doable solution for people when you’re unsure, just know that you have that option. And maybe now is a time that anonymous accounts could protect you. If you’re someone who does want to say something politically, and you don’t want it to touch your professional or your personal kind of social media. I did hear from a couple of people who do like to say, what is truth? What is science? What is facts? And they need to protect themselves in order to do that by creating maybe an anonymous profile that’s not connected with themselves. So there are options, even though yes, it is scary. Yes, things have changed. [Sighs]

    Jen: It’s just like you’re in that lament mode. 

    Jennifer: I know. I’m sorry. I’m kind of a downer. But honestly, I think that’s how people are feeling. And that’s what people are experiencing right now. So if we didn’t say it, it would be not right. 

    Jen: Yeah. The free speech brigade is, that’s not what they care about. I mean, this is obvious, right? But let’s just say we know that this is obvious. They don’t have consequences, but you might experience consequences. 

    Jennifer: Exactly. Exactly. Now, there are other ways to create content and you’re someone who’s actually for a long time tried different forms of content. Blogging is one of them. 

    Jen: [Laughs] In other words, you have failed so many times, Jen. You have failed to hit on the thing that works. 

    Jennifer: No. In other words, you’ve experimented with lots of different forms of media and you found things that really work for you for a time. And then sometimes you get curious about something else. And so you switch it up. 

    Jen: That’s a better way to put it. 

    Jennifer: I think that’s really what’s happened with you because you were prolific at the things that you do try and experiment with. And the From PhD to Life blog is one of them. I mean, when did you start that? That’s pretty old, right?

    Jen: It’s old. So unless my memory is going, I started, so From PhD to Life started as a blog and a website the same day, December 12, 2012. I bought the domain and I got the WordPress site and I wrote my first two posts, I think, if memory serves. Yes, back in 2012, I was really excited about it. The internet was a different place back in 2012, but that is how I started and that is how I grew my business in the early years. I was on Twitter pretty quickly as well, but first the blog, then came Twitter. I think important for folks to know is that although I started my blog on my own website, within, I think I’m getting this right, within a few months, I got asked to blog on an external site. So universityaffairs.ca, which is a Canadian post-secondary ed sector magazine. I don’t know if they’re still a physical magazine, but they were like a 10 times a year kind of magazine and they also had a website. And so I was one of their bloggers, one of their columnists as they called me, but just online. So that was amazing for reach in Canada and beyond as a legitimizing place. Again, the internet is different now, but that was cool.

    Jennifer: That is so cool. And you actually, I remember you won an award for that, didn’t you? 

    Jen: Three! 

    Jennifer: Three! You won three awards! 

    Jen: I mean, it’s been a few years now. I think back in 2015, 16, 17, I got the Gold Award in front of the Canadian Online Publishing Awards for best blog or column in the Blue category, which was for business. 

    Jennifer: Amazing. It’s amazing. I mean, it’s amazing because having a blog about PhDs seeking careers and finding a path that works for their life is like, that should be awarded. But I mean, it’s exciting that that’s the topic that they chose because your blog was so great. Now, the blog did win awards and it did have this big reach, but recently kind of disappeared from the university affairs website, which is typical. I will say like, websites do this. They take down the public writing sometimes in order to put new stuff up. And so when did you notice that it was gone?

    Jen: Yeah. So I think I noticed maybe late fall 2024, something like that. I noticed because I think it was when a client alerted me to a broken link in our online platform for my online course. And I was like, “Oh. Oh, it’s all gone. Okay. Okay. All right. Fair enough.” I know. Gut punch, stab, but also, “Yeah, fair enough.” Okay. It’s been a few years. I stopped blogging for them back in 2020. So it’s been a few years. They owe me nothing. But there was a bit of a moment of, there was at least some good content there that, of course, I didn’t have a record of because who’s that organized? Maybe everybody else listening, but not me.

    Jernnifer: No, when I’m thinking about it now, like my first two years of blogging, I backed up everything. Like I have like a word document of them at least. Recently, nothing. I don’t have anything saved outside of the website itself. 

    Jen: Well, it’s time. 

    Jennifer: I know, it’s time, especially after what happened with the University Affairs version of your blog. Now, what did you do? Like, that stuff was just gone and you had a solution for actually finding the most important things and bringing it back. What happened?

    Jen: Yeah. So the immediate issue was that there was this post that I’d linked to from my course that I think was a good one and useful. And I found it on Internet Archive. And so when it came time to think sort of beyond this immediate problem of like, “Okay, that one post, I want to continue to link to it. Oh, can I find all of the ones on Internet Archive?” In fact, I made a donation to Internet Archive because I was like, “Thank you so much!” Yeah. So then with your help JVA, I went through and picked out the blog posts that I thought were worth saving. I mean, there were, there were a handful that was like, “Eh, that was what I was thinking, you know, eight years ago, but whatever.” And yeah, you helped me put them on my website, copy and paste. Anyways, if you want to say more about that, I’ll let you say more about that. But I’m glad for that because now it’s on my site, I own it. Well, whoever owns the internet owns it. I feel like it’s a little bit more in my hands.

    Jennifer: Yeah. I think that process is overwhelming for people. So it was kind of nice that we got to do it together. But my father-in-law, for instance, is a critic of art. And so he’s had a long career where he’s written, I mean, like hundreds, like thousands, I don’t know, like so many reviews and articles that, when art critics were being laid off quite a while ago and since then, his writing has disappeared from, a lot of his writing has disappeared from the website. And they did give him permission to pull all of the things that he wanted. But like, is he going to go back through the Internet Archive and pull all of those things? No, he doesn’t have the same drive or motivation that someone like you does. So a lot of that stuff, it’s not lost. He has it in physically bound, beautiful books, but it doesn’t mean that it’s like accessible for other people. And so when that’s the goal, when like that’s what you want, yeah, sometimes the project takes a little bit longer than we might want. It can be a little bit frustrating to have to search down old things, but then you have agency and choice in what you do about it next. And so for Jen, she got to pick the ones that were most important to her, we put them back on her blog, on her website FromPhDtolife.com. And that’s something that you could do for your own website. There’s so many options for you, but just knowing that the Wayback Machine and the Internet Archive exist for you to search, it’s a huge tip for people. Actually, after we worked together on that, I went back and I found some things that I’d written as like guest posts for other people in the past that had disappeared. Like they weren’t on the blog anymore because maybe the business had changed or what they were doing with the organization had changed. And so it was really easy for me to pull my original writing, which I didn’t have a good copy of, and put it back on my website so it could still help people. And when I did, I still put a little note at the bottom that said this has originally appeared on this place because I still want to honor that original purpose for the writing. And it’s really interesting to see how we can create afterlives for the things that we’ve written and created. So I love that.

    Jen: Yeah, I will say one thing for folks to know, at least in my experience, the Internet Archive kind of crapped out after a few years. So if you’ve got stuff from like 20 years ago, well, is it even alive after 20 years, I don’t know. But anyways, just do it now. You know, put an hour or two in your calendar, do it now. Don’t wait for five years. 

    Jennifer: Yeah, right. Pull the content now and you can always do something with it later. 

    Jen: Yep. Yeah, it really only took me an hour or two-

    Jennifer: Perfect. 

    Jen: And I didn’t have your father-in-law’s archive, but you know, I had a few years of stuff. 

    Jennifer: There was actually more than I expected in a good way, in the sense that like it really created new life for those pieces of writing that were just lost in the Internet Archive. Now, I’m curious about how your website has kind of changed over time, because the website is 2012. That’s a long time to have a website and actually add new things to it. Like, that’s a lot of new things. So what’s it been like to have a website for that long?

    Jen: Whew, boy. Yeah. And for most of that time, I, and only I was the one doing all the things and you could tell. That’s okay, but you know. I always used a free WordPress. So it’s always been a WordPress and I, it’s always been on WordPress.org, is that right? 

    Jennifer: Yeah, that’s correct for you. 

    Jen: Yeah. And it’s always been connected to my domain FromPhDtolife.com. Anyways, I’m veering from your question. What was it, a year and a half ago that I hired you? Two years ago? 

    Jennifer: Yeah, something like that. 

    Jen: And you, so we’ve done this in two or three stages now. Which has felt manageable, you know, both financially and also in terms of my own need to do some homework, pre-work. 

    Jennifer: We only have so much capacity to do things for our own websites and stuff. 

    Jen: Yeah. So that was, I think that’s really a key point because I had not an outrageous number of pages, but it’s not, it’s not just a one page or two or three page website. There’s a few more pages than that. And for the most part I think my pages were ones that I wanted to keep, but they just over, over time they get longer like an academic CV, right? I’m thinking of like one or two pages in particular that they just, they just grow. You know, as if I was some sort of like tenured professor. So it was really good to say, “Okay, let’s focus on this page and this page and then let’s stop.” And then six months later, “Okay, now I’m ready to do this and this,” right? So that was, so yeah, it just made the process a lot more manageable. And now if you go to my website now, unless I’ve messed it up, unless I have messed it up, it’s looking so much more in-, it’s just more inviting and welcoming, easier for people to use and get at the information that will help them. Yeah, so that I can help them, whether they’re just looking at my website or wanting to take another step or two into working with me.

    Jennifer: Yeah. Like what, what does that look like? Like what if someone does come to your website and they want to take those next steps to work with you? How can PhDs, professors, researchers thinking of leaving academia, you know, work one-on-one with you, work in a group with you? How does that work?

    Jen: Yeah. So folks that are like raring to go. They have options to just pay me money and start working with me immediately. Of course, that’s not going to be most people, especially if you’ve never heard of me before. The main thing that I recommend, so this is for individuals who are interested in their own job search, right? You know, getting another job. There is a free webinar, it’s a video on my website and then there’s like a yellow button kind of all over the place. So I recommend starting with that. You can sign up, you can watch this whenever, you can put it in your schedule and watch it later. It’s got captions and you can press pause, all that good stuff, right? So that I really recommend because it is a, a rich intro to what I teach my clients and the step-by-step process that I recommend everybody go through from like, “Uhh” to “Okay!” You know, I have a great offer and I’m starting a job. Yeah, and then at that point, what most folks do is of course, they feel more confident and more ready to, and they just have a sense of, “Okay, I’m going to stop doing that approach and,” you know, shift my energies more in this direction. And they can go off and do it on their own. There’s a couple of options after that. Individuals can sign up for a one-on-one with me, over Zoom, phone if you want and we can go more in depth for an hour on, you know, your particular issue, whether that’s networking or LinkedIn, or I don’t even know what I should be doing for the rest of my life. Or even better, depending on the person, I have a program. It’s an online course plus, plus other stuff, right? I called a PhD Career Clarity Program and that’s really great for professors, postdocs, other PhDs who are ready to leave academia and leaving academia can mean that you are right now working in academia, or it can mean like in some way you still identify with that profession even if you don’t currently work there. I often get clients who already got a job outside of academia, but that’s not the right fit. So anyways, that’s a very long answer. Start with the free thing and then take it from there.

    Jennifer: I love that. And one of the things that we talked about when we were working on kind of the sales page for the PhD career clarity program is that feeling of hope that people have when they are joining this group and feeling like, “Oh, okay, now I can have that support.” What is the emotional journey for some of these people who are going through your program?

    Jen: Yeah, it’s really interesting because I asked one of my clients a while back, asked somebody that was in the program like, “Why did you join?” And what my, the things that I thought that she would share or that I think sort of in general people share is that they’re feeling kind of like, despair. Maybe not completely, but like there’s some moment of, there’s some feeling of, “I can’t do anything. I’m no good for anybody. Nobody’s ever going to pay me money to do anything. I can’t do it.” And I think sometimes that’s relatable for some people, not everybody. 

    Jennifer: Yeah, yeah.

    Jen: There are certainly other people that are like, “No, I’m feeling confident. I know I have something to offer. I don’t know what it is outside of academia. And so it’s not that I feel bad about myself. It’s that I need to figure out like, what is this called elsewhere?” So those are kind of two things that I had in mind, depending on the person. I mean, maybe you can tell resonated more personally with the first one.

    Jennifer: I think my husband did too. He’s also a PhD who felt some despair. Yeah. 

    Jen: Yes. So okay, you’re in good company. If you consider me to be good company anyways.

    Jennifer: Yes!

    Jen: So there was a third option that I found when I asked my own client who was in the program. And, I think of course she probably felt both of those two things. And a third thing, which is the moment that she decided to join the program, she felt hope. Right? It was like, okay, I don’t know. I don’t know what it is that I’m going to do. Right? I don’t, I’m not entirely sure about my place in the world and what I have to offer and how to tell people about who I am and all of that stuff. But I’m hopeful and I’m going to invest that hope, that energy, that time, some money into moving myself forward. And I really, I love that, right? Cause that’s actually, that was I think a missing piece in my understanding of where people were at. Because yeah, I want you to bring some energy, some hope into this, which is not to downplay any of the other emotions: good, bad, ugly. But I think there’s some . . . Yeah, I think that’s a good, that’s a good, helpful thing to have and a hard thing, a hard thing, right?

    Jennifer: The PhD Career Clarity Program has like a core course, it has workshops and resources. It also has a community. I’d love to hear a little bit more about that community aspect and how people from all these different fields are coming together and like actually finding support within their job search process?

    Yeah. So the community I would say tends to exist, communities are amorphous things, but I would say it comes alive for the most part during our live meetings. And I, there’s two types of live meetings. One is the small group coaching sessions, which these days I do three times a month for an hour. Those are drop-in, you know, bring yourself and whatever’s going on. And then three of those a month. And then once a month, you mentioned I do live workshops. That’s really where the community comes alive, yeah? And it’s really great because the question that sometimes folks ask me is, “Oh, have you ever worked with, you know, a biochemical engineer, right? Or have you ever worked with somebody who goes into like X specific company, right? And the answer could very well be yes, but then the second part of the answer is it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter because it’s really magical what happens when people with disparate backgrounds and career trajectories and, you know, knowledge, expertise and skill areas. In fact, we have a lot in common and that there are differences really enrich the discussions that we have because of course, we’re all different. We’re all different men, women, trans folks, like we, you know, life is different: mothers, fathers, people without kids, et cetera. But it really, it’s really great what happens when we’re together sharing updates and commiserations and strategizing and putting our eyeballs, you know, on each other’s resumes and LinkedIn profiles. I think it really helps people feel much more confident. Academia can be so siloed within disciplines that it can be difficult to imagine yourself stepping into a professional world where you’re not surrounded by other chemists or other anthropologists or whoever, right? 

    Jennifer: Yeah. 

    Jen: So in a way this is like part of growing your confidence, is interacting in a semi-professional space with people from different backgrounds.

    Jennifer: I think it sounds really warm. I think that I’m someone who personally had avoided community or group type things in the past and it was only in the last like five years or so that I have found not just comfort, but like comfortableness within myself because of group programs. Like because I feel more comfortable in smaller communities where we can actually get like a surprising amount of stuff done, whether it’s like emotional relationship building or whether it’s like really getting down and working on strategy and doing something harder. But like my resistance to group programs is like something that, I’m so glad that I have left behind because it really opens up my world to new things. So I’m glad you said that. Yeah.

    Jen: You know, when I started my business, I was doing one-on-one coaching and that’s like the typical model for someone with a coaching approach. And I sometimes do that now, but the coaching I do for the most part is group coaching. And it’s facilitation, group discussions, And that I think is, yeah, is just really powerful and fun. You know, I’m happy to chat with anybody who’s interested but concerned because I know that, there are concerns that people have like, “Am I going to be drowning in all of these other people? Am I going to be the odd person out with nothing in common with anybody else,” etc. But let me know. Let’s chat about it. It’s not for everybody, but I think it’s probably for you.

    Jennifer: I appreciate you, Jen. I’m so glad you came back on The Social Academic. Is there anything else you’d like to add before we wrap up?

    Jen: Big sigh. You know, I think there’s still connection to be made online. There’s still good people out there trying to make a difference in the world in the ways that they can, including online. 

    Jennifer: Yeah. 

    Jen: There’s still value in sharing what you’re about. Even if right now in some circumstances, you might choose to be a little bit more circumspect. There’s still value in that. And in the meantime, you may build community in other ways and that’s okay too. You know, you don’t owe your social media followers. Can I say this? You don’t owe them anything, right? You don’t owe them your presence. You don’t, you can choose to pause your activity and you don’t have to stress about it. I mean, what would you say?

    Jennifer: Yeah, I think that’s really good. I think that last year, personally, I leaned into more of the pause in the sense that like, I didn’t put as much effort into social media. I really tried to be more relaxed about it. And that meant I was posting less. It meant I was taking some long breaks, sometimes weeks. And it made a difference for my mental health, but it also made a difference for like my brain and what I was able to focus on instead. Letting go of some of that need to post was helpful for me. But on the flip side of that, if you’re someone who struggles to post, being conscientious, being cautious does make sense, but also know that there’s other ways that you can have a strong online presence, whether it’s filling out your LinkedIn profile, creating a simple personal website or portfolio website. There’s so many options for you. And it’s okay if social media isn’t where you want to be spending your time.

    Jen: Yeah, it’s great when people reach out and they write because they found you somewhere. 

    Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. 

    Jen: Why not that be the internet? 

    Jennifer: Exactly. So you can connect with Dr. Jen Polk on social media @fromphdtolife. And check out her website, https://www.fromPhDtolife.com for resources, transition interviews, and that awesome webinar that you can watch for free. Yay. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Jen! 

    Jen: Thank you. Always, always nice to chat, even if it’s a bit formal like this.

    Jennifer: And for everyone who’s listening, I’m going to drop the links to Jen and I’s past interviews on informational interviews and on what is networking so you can check those resources out too. 

    Jen: Can I say one more thing? 

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Jen: Just anybody who is thinking about hiring my friend JVA to help with your online presence, writing a bio, you know, let me be more specific, getting your website looking a little better, maybe a lot better. Do not hesitate. Act now. Run, don’t walk.

    It’s been really, really fun to work with you, Jennifer. And we’re going to do it again. I’m warning you now. We’re not done.

    Jen: Thank you. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the Social Academic, Jen.

    Dr. Jennifer Polk, photo by Nadalie Bardowell

    Jennifer Polk, PhD, is a career coach and expert on PhD careers. Since 2013, she’s worked with graduate students and doctoral degree holders based in Canada, the United States, the UK, Australia, and elsewhere. Jen created her PhD Career Clarity Program to help PhDs navigate their career paths with confidence.

    Jen has spoken on university campuses and at academic and professional conferences throughout North America on issues related to graduate education and career outcomes for PhDs. Jen regularly facilitates professional development workshops (now online) and delivers presentations for graduate students and postdocs. In addition, she currently serves on the board of directors for CAGS, the Canadian Association for Graduate Studies.

    Her writing has appeared in University AffairsInside Higher Ed, the Chronicle of Higher Education, the Globe and Mail, and Academic Matters. Her University Affairs blog (2013–20), “From PhD to Life,” won three gold awards at the Canadian Online Publishing Awards. She’s also contributed essays to three books: Moving On: Essays on the Aftermath of Leaving Academia (2014), Reflections on Academic Lives: Identities, Struggles, and Triumphs in Graduate School and Beyond (2017), and How to Get Your PhD: A Handbook for the Journey (2021). Jen was also an expert panelist for the 2021 Canadian Council of Academies report, Degrees of Success, on the challenges PhDs face transitioning to employment.

    Jen was co-founder of Beyond the Professoriate from the company’s founding until her departure in January 2020. Between 2014 and 2019 she co-produced and -hosted several online conferences attended by hundreds of graduate students, PhDs, and career education professionals. For several years she also ran Self-Employed PhD, an online network of freelancers, independent consultants, entrepreneurs, and small business owners. She hosted #withaPhD chat, a twice-monthly Twitter discussion, for three years. 

    Jen is actively engaged in online conversations about careers for PhDs, especially on social media. Follow her @FromPhDtoLife, or interact with her on LinkedIn and Facebook.

    Jen earned her PhD in history from the University of Toronto in 2012, and an MA and BA from Carleton University.

    P.S. To chat about working with Jennifer van Alstyne on your website or online presence, sign up for your no pressure Zoom call.

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  • The Graphic History of Hip Hop with Walter Greason and Tim Fielder

    The Graphic History of Hip Hop with Walter Greason and Tim Fielder

    Are you an academic open to making an impact with your research in creative ways? Dr. Walter Greason is back on The Social Academic podcast with artist, Tim Fielder. They created The Graphic History of Hip Hop, a graphic novel taking the education sector by storm. When I asked, “did you expect this kind of response from your book?” It was a definite no. The ripple effect of engagement and impact The Graphic History of Hip Hop is creating for students is inspiring.

    Hi, I’m Jennifer van Alstyne. The Social Academic podcast shares interviews with academics and people in Higher Education. When The Graphic History of Hip Hop was announced, Walter and Tim got billions of views that has helped their book and style of sharing history reach people around the world. I’m excited to share this featured interview with you.

    Before we get started, this Saturday, April 12, 2025 is my Promoting Your Book Online for Academics workshop. I’d love for you to join us. It’s at 11:30 am Pacific Time / 2:30pm Eastern Time, and there will be a replay if you can’t make it live. Get info about the workshop and register.

    Cover of The Graphic History of Hip Hop graphic novel with a screenshot of a page featuring hip hop artists DJ Kool Herc and Fab Five Freddy. Illustrations of Walter Greason, PhD and Tim Fielder. Greason is the DeWitt Wallace Professor of History at Macalester College and a Historian of Afrofuturism. Tim Fielder is an OG visual Afrofuturist, illustrator, concept designer, cartoonist, and animator.
    From the Graphic History Company
    Walter Greason, PhD, Author
    Tim Fielder, Illustrator

    Jennifer van Alstyne: Hi everyone, I’m Jennifer van Alstyne and welcome to The Social Academic. Dr. Walter Greason is back for another interview and he brought his collaboration partner for The Graphic History of Hip Hop, Tim Fielder. I’m so happy you’re both here. Tim, would you introduce yourself for people?

    Tim Fielder: Hello, I am Tim Fielder. I’m a visual Afrofuturist and graphic novelist who has had the pleasure to work with the endowed chair at Macalester College, Dr. Walter Greason.

    Dr. Walter Greason: You’re hilarious, man. 

    Tim: We’re going to ride him like that. We’re going to ride him. He just got it about a month ago and every time, you used to be Dr. Walter, now he’s the endowed chair Dr. Walter Greason.

    Jennifer: Oooh! [Laughing]

    Tim: So we’ll see. So we’ve been riding him. He earned it though. I’m so proud of him. It makes me look good to work with Walter because Walter is so accomplished in what he does, not just being a hip hop scholar, generally a nice guy, a unashamedly justice, social justice warrior, and he keeps me, he’s an all-star, north star. And he makes all of us around him work harder. He makes us want to aspire to work harder. And by just the association alone, having done The Graphic History of Hip Hop has made me a better artist and has brought me, you know you think, “Oh, this would just be a freelance job.” Nah. Having done this book with Walter has exposed me to opportunities that I could not have dreamed up. So it has been a true, true ride. 

    Walter: I appreciate you. 

    Tim: He’s still crazy though, don’t get it mixed and twisted. 

    Walter: I appreciate you, you know, really. Anything I bring is a reflection of the people that I work with. And y’all are two of the folks that make me so inspired every single day. For Tim, the way his genius manifests in the production of the work. And I’ve seen it now firsthand, in person. God, its got to be like six years since we first did that thing with N Square. But man, like his ability to touch people’s soul and to move them, to find something extraordinary in themselves that they couldn’t see before he drew them. That, that is just a miracle every single time it happens.

    And Jennifer, the work that you’ve done that I’ve seen you put together since our time back in New Jersey. You are doing that with these shows, with this effort to motivate people.

    And I want to specifically congratulate you for the amazing series you’ve done recently with Sheena Howard. That’s another colleague of mine going back many years. And so just, this is like family for me to be with y’all. And I couldn’t do the kinds of things I try to do without y’all being out here in the world and showing me different ways to go about making things happen.

    Jennifer: That really brings up this amazing collaboration that you did together. I’m curious, it sounds like you worked on something six years ago. What inspired your collaboration and decision to actually work together to create something different, to create something unique?

    Tim: Go ahead Walter, you can start. I’ll hold the prop up. 

    Walter: So Graphic History of Hip Hop, we got invited to put that together by the New York City Public Schools in December of 2022. But prior to that, so Tim and I met in, um, it was Jackson, Mississippi at the Planet Deep South Afrofuturist Conference. Which was just a convocation of talent that has changed the world in, in very literal terms.

    This was years before the Black Panther movie debuted. This was long before most people around the world knew what Afrofuturism was. So this was an event that was life-changing for everyone there just to be together, but Tim took the photo that symbolizes the event. And so many, many decades from now, when we are no longer here and people are telling the story of Afrofuturism, it’s going to be Tim’s. Not just his images, but his photography that actually tells the story of how the movement has grown and how it had this impact. That photo still lives in all of our hearts cause his skills with the selfie are unmatched. That was one of the moments where I was like, “This dude has got it. Whatever he’s got, I need to stay in touch and be a part of it.” A couple of years later I want to say 2020, 2021, we got invited by Reynaldo Anderson. No, 2022.

    Tim: Oh yeah, I’m sorry. That was Yonkers.

    Walter: Then we were trained in technically how to be futurists by a consulting group that works with the Air Force. They were working on how to imagine a world without nuclear weapons.

    That’s what convinced me that I had to work with Tim. I’m there talking about all this policy and structural reform. How do we actually build a safer world for the future? And he instantly created visualizations of the things we were talking about. I was like, “Dear God, like that’s, that’s the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen.”

    I made a note that the next opportunity I had to ask him to do something I would. Sure enough, December 2022 managed to catch him around Christmas time. He was like, “Oh, this dude, I don’t know. We’ll see.”

    He came on board and was like, “All right, I’ll take a shot. I’ll take a shot.” And man, it has just been warp speed, Star Trek ever since just every day. Some amazing new thing happens for us. This has been spectacular. I’m sorry, Tim. You tell the story better than I do.

    Tim: No, no, no. He’s right. It’s just, that’s the thing. I’m not the fastest artist out there. You know, I can do fully rendered work. I use advanced technology. I use everything available to me on my work. But unlike other projects I’ve worked on, this project doesn’t seem to want to die.

    We did South by Southwest (SXSW). Was there and I thought, ‘Okay, we’re done. That’s it. It’ll slow down.’ Then, you know, we did the Spin Magazine, they featured us in their December physical issue. Told us, “Well, you guys won’t be in the online version, just in the print version.” Then without announcement, bloop, it just pops up in the online version. That’s what it’s been. It’s been that kind of thing that seems to be an experience in perpetual momentum.

    Tim: And it’s been that kind of experience. I know so much more about hip hop that I did when I started. I’m not Walter. I’m not a scholar like that, but I have been forced to learn about the form and it has made me a better artist as a result. A dramatically better artist.

    We’ll see what happens, you know. But in 2022, he called me and we put it together. First, it was like a floppy. We thought it was a 100,000 copies of this floppy distributed into the New York City School System. Then we were told it was a 150,000 copies. But we learned two weeks ago that it was 200,000 copies. Is that correct, Walter? 

    Walter: Yeah, that’s what Joe’s been talking about.

    Tim: 200,000 copies, which is kind of frightening. But you know, hey, what you going to do, say, “Don’t put 200,000 copies of that book in those schools.” You know? So it’s in there and then we’re working on Volume 2 now.

    Our partner, Christina Hungspruke LaMattina partnered with us and we decided to do this here, which is the full-on graphic novel version. So that 24 page version became a 92 page graphic novel, which of course was done, it wasn’t planned like that. I always use this joke, it will be good.

    Tim: Never request a timeline from a historian. Don’t do that. It’s like, really, I didn’t know what that meant when someone told you, “Well, you, what do you mean? Don’t give them a timeline. Don’t ask them for a timeline.” They should know. No, it has nothing to do with what they know. They will go above and beyond.

    The book was out, there was a lot of media. People would download it. We were on TV and everything, traveling around. We did this New York tour. It was insane. And Christina is like, “We got to do something else because they’re giving the book away,” because it was free. The DOE (Department of Education) version was free. Right? So you can download it right now.

    But we wanted to start a company. So we started a company miraculously named The Graphic History Company. Seems so self-explanatory. So we did that. Yes, we did that.

    I asked Walter, “Hey man, I need you to give me a timeline because I’m going to put it on the website. And I’m thinking, ‘he’ll do it by decades, you know: the 70s, 90s. It would just be a few paragraphs and I could do it.

    This guy comes back a day later with 45 years worth. And I’m like, oh my God. Cause I mean, I just remember saying, “There’s no way I’m putting this on the website. This is the graphic novel. This is the expanded version.” And of course we added dates, moved stuff around. I think it starts in 1964 and it goes all the way to 2006. This is just Volume 1. We could not finish the entire history of hip hop in one volume. We’re doing 3 and it still won’t be done. But it’s as far as we going to take it.

    But yeah, it changed my life. I thought when I did it, this is going to be a basic freelance job. It has utterly failed in that department. A career defining moment for me, for sure. 

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    Walter: Yeah. We knew we had to do something big. We knew we had to do something bigger.

    We knew we had to do something big because when we went to Queens and the middle schoolers stormed over the tables. They grabbed us and pulled us to the floor, demanding that we sign copies. We give them more copies. Like it was, Tim was very wise to get a hold of video from the teachers who witnessed the mass assault. It’s just been this thing where we go to DC, we go to Virginia, we go down to Louisiana. Tim was just at South by Southwest in Texas.

    Everywhere we go, the energy around this book is so enormous. And that’s the thing. It’s not just in the New York City schools. We’re getting adoptions from every major city school district in the country. I was just talking with somebody in London who’s talking about adoptions over there. It’s far larger than anything we anticipated when we first started trying to put it all together.

    VIDEO: Watch New York schools substituting traditional history textbooks with comics on CBS Chicago.

    Jennifer: What is an adoption?

    Walter: It’s when either a school or a district looks at their student body, looks at their curriculum and says, “Oh, we need this to be part of what we teach.” And so the hundreds of thousands of copies in New York City, they’re just there on demand for everybody in the city.

    Then we have folks in Richmond who have written an extraordinary lesson plan that have made it not just available for Virginia, but they’ve made it easy for teachers to teach it everywhere. And so the teachers start clamoring for it because frankly, the educational effect is unparalleled.

    Students that are grade levels behind in reading all of a sudden become intensely excited readers and they catch up to grade level. The kids that are at grade level, they start jumping years ahead because they can’t stop reading.

    It’s not just literally the history of hip hop. It’s the combination of the art, the music that we discuss, and then underneath all of it is the history that then they learn, they internalize, they memorize cause they literally just can’t stop reading it. It goes on to everything else that they’re trying to learn. It gives them a love of learning and reading that they didn’t have as intensely before.

    Jennifer: What about working with Tim, what about making this visual makes it more effective not just for young students who are sounds like knocking you down because they’re so excited. Like that’s amazing. But as an adult reading this book, this was fascinating for me to learn about this history and to experience it in a visual way. So I’m curious, what about that partnership was most creative? Or, what lit your spark together?

    Walter: So Tim has done a couple books. Yeah. She asked me what the joy of working with you is given your amazing skills. So I’m definitely going to jump on that.

    When it comes to Tim’s work and looking at either Matty’s Rocket or Infinitum, which are his books that he did, was really well known before he ever started talking with me for real.

    You see in his art, this kind of vibrancy of each individual. But I love in Infinitum, the way that he took his vision of an undying main character and he turns that into this, this experience where you’re looking through the man’s eyes and you’re feeling the kind of arrogance initially. You’re feeling like the embodied intellect, the suffering that comes to be inflicted on the character. It is so visceral that when Tim is crafting work, this is what I was saying about doing portraiture of individuals, is they see things about themselves that they never saw before.

    That’s this amazing gift that comes through the production of graphic art. And particularly his skill is that it taps into something that is unique to all of us and often something that we don’t appreciate until we see it reflected back. So now that that’s been for me as a historian, as a scholar who writes about forgotten people in places, to see them just recognized and just presented in a way that other people can encounter them and understand them is astonishing on its own. But then when the people themselves see the way that they’re represented and the way that the joy pours out of them. That they become so excited about what they want to say and how they want to add more to what we’ve done. There’s no better gift. Tim talks often when we go around these places about the way people respond with good will and are just thrilled to connect with us.

    As much as I love doing history and can do history well in various contexts, that’s primarily his art. His art is what makes the connection that then inspires the joy and the excitement. And so I’m going to give all the credit because you know, Tim is very, very kind and then, will shy away. But he knows my stuff is full of really deep and hard things to grapple with. People can get overwhelmed by it. He is extraordinarily good about keeping the joy of the process at the center. And that’s what really makes folks most excited to do these things with us.

    Tim: Thank you for that. I appreciate that, brother. However, now let me interject. So the very nature of a graphic history, it’s not a graphic, it’s not a history that’s told just with prose. It’s about the marriage and the dance between the written word and the picture. Right? So it really is a form that is totally unique. It’s a comic book, right? But graphic novels are longer-form comic books. And it really is a longer form where you’re telling a self-contained story as best you can where you’re trying to convey the same level and depth of written narrative by coupling it with the visual narrative.

    That’s not an easy thing to do because obviously the academic thing is that, you know, you do a book, 200 people read it and that’s considered a norm. The idea of doing this book, at least for me, was about taking that very learned academic style,(…) right? Which the floppy was initially done for 11th graders.

    And then the challenge when we expanded it actually broadened, as far as I’m concerned, broaden it so that it can expand to different ages and people who were much older because we began to deal with more and more and more obscure stuff in the story. So you had your Arsenio Hall, which was, oh, everybody knew Arsenio Hall. But then you have that thing where certain acts I had never heard of. But doing within a context. I forget, who was the one…What’s the one with the World Trade Center? 

    Walter: That’s not a group. That’s Immortal Technique. That’s Immortal Technique, a basically New York City rapper at the turn of the century and still does amazing work today. 

    Tim: Exactly. But the way we did that image, we had to juxtapose with the World Trade Center accident because hip hop is not some separate part of culture. It’s a part of the world of black culture. American culture. Latino culture. It’s world culture.

    And so the challenge for me was taking this very real kind of real dense, almost Tom Clancy level geopolitical perspective and seeing how he intermixed it with hip hop history. My job was how do I make this stuff look good and be informational? So it’s not just dealing with it. It’s like, yes, you want the images to look good, but you also want them to serve as an infographic if you will.

    That kind of blend of those things and I have to say, has absolutely made me a better artist. I know I keep repeating that. But I think it’s made the field of graphic history move for me. There are other books out there. March, you know, just goes on and on out there, Maus that are great. But I’m very proud of this book because it’s moved this form, right? Which in this time of day, you got book bans and all like things like that.

    Our book has been able to somewhat survive because doesn’t even really matter your political background. Everybody listens to hip hop. It literally cuts across the board and to be involved with such a project that succeeds on an artistic level, but then it begins to potentially and progressively affect public policy.

    That’s when you really getting in the grease because then it’s not just a vanity project based on entertainment. You’re influencing the way people run their school systems, the way they’re running their interactions with their educators. There’s a reason why we just were the keynote at the Minnesota Council for Social Studies thing. And it’s because beyond the fact that, you know, we’re nice guys. We’re always going to have fun. We’re going to bring the joy, bring the fun.

    There’s still this context that the teachers can not only get the information, but they get information from how we present that they can take back to the classroom. And I think that, that’s what allows what Walter and I do together. I’ve done some talks before, not a lot. But the last year and a half, we’ve done a lot of these things and we’ve refined at such a point now that now we’re probably going to start bringing music, some form of that into the presentation. That’s literally where we’re at. I’m sorry, that was a droning on answer to your question. 

    Jennifer: I loved it, especially because what you each gained from this collaboration by working with each other was a spark that really rippled. It had like ripple effects for education systems, for students, for other educators that are seeing themselves in what you’ve done in the sense that like, “Oh, maybe I could do something like that too. Maybe I could create something that’s a little different. That’s not maybe the traditional academic monograph, but still has the potential to influence public policy and practice.”

    Tim: It’s in comics or the sequential art medium has the ability to connect with people. It allows people to move into the process of reading much more easily. And this is not just for kids, it’s for adults too.

    But I believe particularly due to the travels that Walter and I are engaging, and like I said there have been other graphic novels before that. But because we pretty aggressively…I would have maybe tried to like, well not really. Nah, we pretty aggressively engaged the education sector. I mean, very aggressively in terms of both the local school systems, but then on the college level. So we’re doing all of it at the same time. I know, so much more. Like I didn’t even know there was a convention system for social studies. I didn’t know that. I thought, “Well, it was just-.” But like no, they have their whole convention scene too.

    I believe that we are now starting to influence other academics to take the job because they’re using what we do as a model. 

    Jennifer: Yes. 

    Tim: It’s not like some stand off thing where you have some larger than life figure. It’s just regular dudes, you know, who are out there. I mean, well, the endowed chair will never be regular. But you get my point though. We’re regular guys who are doing our work and other academics are seeing that “we can do that too.” So it’s all for them. The field of what could be told is unending.

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    Jennifer: What felt different about creating this book and seeing it out there, seeing it in the hands of students as opposed to your academic monographs. And I’m not saying like some books are better than others, but I’m curious how it felt in terms of that actual interaction with the readers?

    Walter: Oh, it’s amazing. So you know me from my work in education and that’s different for me than it is for some other professional historians is that they go in to primarily do their research and to write their books. And teaching is secondary if not third place among their priorities. For me, the teaching is first. That’s always been it. I was teaching in P-12 systems for 17 years before I became a higher ed academic.

    Jennifer: I didn’t know that. 

    Walter: Yeah, this is now 20 years. No, more than that. 27 years since I taught my first college class. And so this has just been a journey for me that is rooted in education. And so the connection with students, connection with families is my top priority. It’s the reason why I teach at Macalester College in St. Cloud, it’s an institution that shares those values and is committed to the education first.

    And then everything else, just like in my life, flows from that foundation, that basically I teach so that I can do more research, so that I can do more service in communities around the world. And that’s the way my life is built. To then come up and find a tool like the graphic, like graphic history generally no matter what subject it covers.

    But specifically The Graphic History of Hip Hop that shows the commitment that shaped who I am. I would never be who I am without hip hop. And then from there to then grow that out and have that effect spread to people in every part of the world. When we first launched this almost a year ago, we had billions of engagements. Like 3-4 billion engagements from people online looking for, “What is this? What is this content? How can we get a hold of this? How can we use it?”

    That’s why we have connects in Germany, and Japan, and New Zealand, and all these other places that are pulling on what we do. This morning, some folks from Senegal were in my ear about “we need this as part of our national education curriculum.” They speak French, they want French copies. So we got to figure out, how do we reword everything in French?

    It’s just amazing to me because that’s the highest priority, is that we got to do things that other educators never even attempt to. The other professors that I work with who have had the kind of success that I’ve had in college, they typically say to me routinely, “I only write for 2 other people. You know, there’s me and there’s 2 other experts that that’s who I care what they see. And then how do they understand what I’ve written?”

    A big group here in St. Paul has, someone approached me yesterday and was like, “there are like 20 people who can really understand the quality of the work that I do.” And that’s pretty much the academic standard, is that you have a small group of people that you share kind of a community of knowledge.

    But this is very different. My community of knowledge grew most rapidly through social media, kind of leading up to the Black Panther release and Afrofuturism. A lot of the work I did on racial violence, these things gained really global audiences. But the practice and the application of this knowledge through The Graphic History of Hip Hop is unprecedented. And so the people read it, they feel it, it moves them emotionally. None of the other books I’ve done have that same kind of impact.

    Tim: I have to say that Christine and I, our other partner. First of all, you have to understand for him to say what he said. It took a long time for us to get into that point. I am so proud of him because he’s now, you know, hey, dyed in the wool academic. There’s a certain standard. You have to get your citations right. And all the big wig technical words that I don’t know what they mean. This guy was that. He is that guy.

    What I am so proud of him with doing is he has found a way to maintain his integrity with that and blend it with this mass form. And I think frankly, what’s beyond the obvious that many, many, many more people are reading his stuff than almost any academic on the planet with the exception of a handful.

    The thing that makes what he’s doing so important is that it’s actively affecting social change in the schools. Think about it. How many people can actually write a book where they can cite that school systems are adopting the book on multiple levels, right? We’re asked to talk about it all over the country, right? There are other countries asking us to utilize this modality. How many people, academic or no, get to have that level of effect?

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    Jennifer: Did you expect that kind of response when you started this project or was it more of a surprise? Either of you? No, Walter’s face is like, no! 

    Tim: Hell no. Hell no. I expected, I’m going to be honest with you. Like I said, initially I thought, “this will be a great freelance job. The money is good.” I’ll do it and I’ll be known as that. And that’ll be it. And it won’t take over my life.

    It actually took over my life. It took over my other projects, which have not made my other editors very happy, but it really did. And I’m so glad it did because again, it’s made me a better artist.

    There are different sectors of the publishing world when it deals with comics. You have the direct sales market, which is Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, but that industry is actually imploding now as we speak. It’s because the primary distributor has gone under and started to sell off the assets. So local comic book shops no longer, it’s difficult for them to get access to content. And you know how the marketplace works. The more difficult you make it for your potential customers to get access to your content, you know, that feeds itself.

    But then there are these other aspects. There is the academic market. There’s the graphic novel market, which we’re in. But we braced academic and the graphic novel market. And then there’s manga. So we do graphic novels and academic. Right? So what we’ve done is allowed us to have this ability to be able to effectively surf. And I use that word, both worlds, both waves, if you will. And it, but I couldn’t have told them, “Look guys, we should publish through Ingram.” And that was the best I could do.

    But after a while, it is now taking a life of its own to where The Graphic History Company is a multimedia company. It really is. It’s a multimedia company and it’s allowed me as an operator. I have interest in marketing and promotion because I talk a lot, as you can see. But what it’s done is allowed me to be able to practice muscles I never thought I would have been able to practice. Due to this book has gotten me in the Washington DC SET. I never thought that would happen, but it did. You know, it did. It’s allowed us to be approached. We’ve been in the Smithsonian. We’ve been in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. And I’m listening up and thinking, yeah, that’s right. We did that. And it’s all because of this book.

    The Graphic History of Hip Hop
    Illustration by Tim Fielder

    Jennifer: If you are watching this, it’s time to get your copy of The Graphic History of Hip Hop. And it sounds like, is the graphic novel version also like, can I buy that? 

    Tim: Yes.

    Jennifer: Okay. I’m going to go out and get my copy of the graphic, graphic novel version too because I want to see all of the things that didn’t fit into this one. I’m really excited to see your art, Tim and Walter, to see this breadth of history that I knew nothing about to really dive into it. It’s exciting for me. And for everyone who’s watching, if you’re someone who has an idea or a dream about a book project and maybe it’s not going to look the way that your traditional academic edited collection or monograph is going to look, it sounds like this could be a real opportunity to create the change you want to see in the world. For Walter and Tim, it really sounds like it went beyond your expectations.

    Walter: It’s amazing. And I do think you have the graphic novel one. Yours I think is 90 pages. Looks like the hardcover. I’d be amazed if you had the floppy because that didn’t, not many got out of New York. 

    Jennifer: Oh yeah, no, this is 89 [pages]. Yeah. I want the hardcover version. That’s what I’m asking about. Yeah.

    Tim: So you got hardcover and softcover version, 92 pages. And you know, the hardcover can be used as a weapon in a pinch. So really something there for everyone.

    Jennifer: Amazing. Is there anything else you’d like to add before we wrap up? I want to give you time for anything else you’d like to share. 

    Walter: Just that I love the work you do, Jennifer. And anytime we can do anything to support the work, and especially the way that you have served the academic sector has been spectacular.

    I want to encourage all of my colleagues, everyone who is doing this work out here to come and visit with you because it is absolutely essential for us to build all the different kinds of careers we have based on the knowledge that we’ve acquired.

    Jennifer: Thank you!

    Tim, anything you’d like to share? 

    Tim: Yeah, presently working on Volume 2, which I hope to have some day before my hair grows back. And we’ll have that out and out to the public. And then got to work to Volume 3and hopefully some news, please Lord, I’ll be hearing very soon. I’ve been bothering Walter about why haven’t we heard anything. So if that happens the way I want, it’ll be really interesting, but I’m not going to jinx it.

    Jennifer: Fingers crossed.

    I wish you both all the best with your collaborations and your own initiatives in the future. This has been such an interesting conversation for me. I can’t wait to share it with people.

    I hope they all go out and get The Graphic History of Hip Hop because this is, wow. I mean, it’s just so colorful and engaging and memorable. I think that even if you’re not someone who identifies as a graphic novel reader, maybe you don’t read comics that are in other things, this can still really be engaging. And it was surprising for me to see how into it I got knowing very little about hip hop. Thank you so much for coming on The Social Academic. 

    Tim: Thank you.

    Walter: Much love. Thank you.

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    Illmatic Consequences: The Clapback to Opponents of Critical Race Theory—edited by Dr. Walter Greason and Danian Darrell Jerry has been honored with the 2025 Anna Julia Cooper and C. L. R. James Prize for Outstanding Research in Africana Studies at the National Council for Black Studies (NCBS) Conference.

    Walter Greason

    Walter Greason, Text: Writer, Suburban Erasure Cities Imagined & Illmatic Consequences

    Dr. Walter Greason, Ph.D., DeWitt Wallace Professor in the Department of History at Macalester College is the preeminent historian of Afrofuturism, the Black Speculative Arts, and digital economies in the world today. Named one of “Today’s Black History Makers” by The Philadelphia Daily News, Dr. Greason has written more than one hundred academic articles and essays. His work has appeared on Huffington Post, National Public Radio, and The Atlantic among other popular, professional and scholarly journals. He is also the author, editor, and contributor to eighteen books, including Suburban Erasure, The Land Speaks, Cities Imagined, Illmatic Consequences, and The Black Reparations Project.

    From 2007 ­­– 2012, Dr. Greason was an advisor to Building One America, the coalition that designed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (2009). He also served as the Founding President of the T. Thomas Fortune Foundation, an organization that saved the National Historic Landmark dedicated to the leading, militant journalist of the nineteenth century. Dr. Greason’s digital humanities projects, “The Wakanda Syllabus” and “The Racial Violence Syllabus”, produced global responses in the last six years. His work in historic preservation and virtual reality continues to inspire new research around the world. Dr. Greason currently writes about the racial wealth gap and the patterns of economic globalization.

    Dr. Greason is currently serving as a special consultant to the Institute for the Study of Global Racial Justice at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey.

    @WalterDGreason

    Tim Fielder

    Tim Fielder author image. Text: Illustrator, Matty's Rocket & INFINITUM An Afrofuturist Tale

    Tim Fielder is an Illustrator, concept designer, cartoonist, and animator born in Tupelo, Mississippi, and raised in Clarksdale, Mississippi. He has a lifelong love of Visual Afrofuturism, Pulp entertainment, and action films. He holds other Afrofuturists such as Samuel R. Delany, Octavia Butler, Pedro Bell, and Overton Loyd as major influences. He is the creator of the graphic novels INFINITUM: An Afrofuturist Tale, published by HarperCollins Amistad in 2021, and the Glyph Award-winning ‘Matty’s Rocket.’ Fielder is also known for participating in the Carnegie Hall Afrofuturism Festival exhibit ‘Black Metropolis’ and The Smithsonian National Museum of African-American History and Culture exhibit ‘AFROFUTURISM: A History of Black Futures’.



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  • Author Websites with HR Hegnauer

    Author Websites with HR Hegnauer

    How can we help new readers find your words? How can you help your book have a legacy? Website designer / book designer HR Hegnauer joins me for this featured interview. HR has designed over 350 books, creating award-winning covers and interiors for both print and ebook editions. She’s also an expert website designer who helps authors create a lasting presence for their writing online.

    We attended the Jack Kerouac School for MFAs in Writing & Poetics at Naropa University (though at different times). HR has also taught in the Summer Writing Program which happens each year in Boulder, Colorado. I had the pleasure of collaborating with HR back in 2014-2016 on Something On Paper, a journal of poetics. I’m so happy she could join me for this featured interview.

    Before we get started, don’t miss my live workshop on April 12 on Promoting Your Book Online for Academics. Sign up today.

    Are you an academic author who needs a website? I’m partnering up with HR Hegnauer for Team Website VIP Days. If you’d like my team of experts to put our creative brains together for your online presence as an academic, don’t hesitate to reach out. I’m happy to chat with you. Schedule your no pressure Zoom call about working together.

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    Jennifer Van Alstyne: Hello and welcome to The Social Academic! I am Jennifer Van Alstyne, your host, and my guest today is all about books and book design, and book websites. So I’m so excited to have HR Hegnauer here. HR, would you please introduce yourself?

    HR Hegnauer: Sure, yeah, thanks so much for having me, Jennifer. My name is HR. I work as a book designer and also a website designer and run my own design studio. And yeah, I love getting to do the work that I do.

    Jennifer: So I think my first question for you is kind of about the book design process. So many people are like, they’re focused on writing their book, they’re so excited, they are getting it published. And then they’re like, “Well, what comes next?” I know it’s different with different presses, but do you think you could walk us through a little bit of the kind of book design process and what that’s like for people?

    HR: Yeah, absolutely. And you’re totally right. It really does vary on kind of who that publisher is or maybe they’re self-publishing. There’s a huge spectrum. And I’ve been making books for about 18 years now. I’ve designed over 350 books. And so I’ve really seen that spectrum about every single type of publisher: corporate, institutional, universities, tiny micro nonprofit, self-publishing, the whole thing. When the person’s done writing that book, it’s going to of course go through the editing process and all of that. And then by the time I come on board, what we want to do is take that manuscript and make it into a really good book that someone wants to sit with and read and engage with, right? And it’s my job to make sure, right, that it can do that for the person. It’s legible, it works well. The design works for the book. The cover is like a visual articulation of what’s happening in the content.

    Jennifer: Hmm. What’s your process like for cover design? I know cover design and book design, the interior of it are a little bit different. I’d love to hear about covers because that’s honestly what I think people might have the most flexibility with when it comes to academic books. So what are your thoughts about cover design?

    HR: That’s such a fun thing to dive into and it can be really hard for the writer to kind of imagine it too because they’re working in words, right? They’re the writer, they’re not working in visuals. And so in my process, I’ve developed this questionnaire over the last, you know, 18 years. And that helps us kind of set the visual tone, right? So is this, is it an academic book talking about something from the 19th century? Is it a hyper-modern poetry book? Is it something from the tech industry or a memoir? There’s all kinds of sort of, I guess, genres, right? That kind of help orient a little bit in ways. But then there’s all these other things to consider. Like maybe the person has a piece of art or photography they really wanna see on the cover, or maybe they wanna just go text only on the cover, which can be super fun. And then that text can be a graphic element itself, right?

    Jennifer: So I’m curious, like I know that you partner with presses to sometimes do the cover design. Like what is the, almost like the technical process of like, let’s say an author gets their book accepted and their press is like, “Well, what do you want for the cover design?” Can they ask for a specific cover artist to work with them? What kind of input can they give if maybe they haven’t been offered someone like you to partner with?

    HR: Yeah, you can definitely ask. Not sure always what the response is, but definitely ask for sure. I mean, to be an advocate for your own book because sometimes nobody else is. And so, you know and presses, some have their own in-house designers who are amazing. Some presses have certain style guides they’re trying to follow themselves or some series that they’re trying to work within. Oh, one of my friends, Dr. Echo Rivera, she was like really thinking about putting like a presentations book out in the world. And a press was very interested in working with her, but when she heard that she would have no control over the cover, that they were really stuck in this very set cover for the series that it was gonna be published under. She actually decided to not move forward with that project, with that press, just cause the cover is so important for something like presentations and design. Like that’s what she’s talking about. It can’t be a huge mismatch. So I love that you help people really get visual when it comes to their thinking, being introspective about their cover. Now, how does that differ from like the interior of the book? I mean, there’s so many academics that also are interested in self-publishing or wanna create resources that are more like book format. I’m curious about the interior. What’s that process like? 

    HR: Yeah, well, ideally they’re in conversation with each other, the cover and the interior. They’re not always, but I think when they are, that is when you have the best fully integrated one.

    Jennifer: Yeah. (Laughing)

    HR: And so what that means, technically speaking, is sometimes elements from the cover are coming into the interior. Maybe that’s in the title font choices or maybe some little graphical, graphic element or embellishment somewhere. But the main thing for the interior is that, sometimes I like to think, you know, if the reader is noticing something about the interior, it’s usually because maybe they’re struggling through it because it’s not well done or not well designed. And I don’t mean that in any kind of like design slight, I just mean it in like, if someone spends sometimes years writing a book, you want your reader to be able to really read it and engage with it and not have to like physically struggle. And so that’s a big part of it. Can your reader really engage with it? And so sometimes an author will come to me or a publisher or somebody and say, “I really love Helvetica. Can you lay out my 400 pages in it, in Helvetica?” Sure, technically speaking, I could. But you know what, that’s my job as a design professional to help the person understand why that’s really not a good design choice because your reader is not gonna be able to work with that themselves.

    And then that means like, well number one, they’re not gonna read it. But then, maybe then they’re a professor and they’re not going to teach it either or no one’s going to write a review about it. You know, all these kinds of things that unfold in these multiple ways.

    Jennifer: Hm. So it’s almost like when you are being more intentional about the experience that people will have while reading your book and how that plays out in terms of design, that it limits all of those potentials for almost like a breakdown in connection that could happen afterwards. Once people do have a good reading experience with your book, we want them to be able to take the next step, whether that’s in their own life or to help you share your book and so that’s really interesting. Oh, HR, one of the things that you brought up was about some of the things that authors have struggled with. I’m curious. What are some of those, some maybe mindset things, some maybe like just not knowing what their next steps are, what are some struggles authors have when it comes to book covers, book design, sharing their book? 

    HR: Sure, yeah, especially because, and it’s no fault of an author, it’s not them to have to know everything. The industry is constantly changing all of the time, even in terms of like what are options for self-publishing or then if you’re self-publishing, what does that mean in terms of distribution? How are you supposed to just know that? It’s not like an innate thing. And so those are real struggles. Or how do you promote your book? Maybe you have a really awesome publisher who has that support and foundation behind you, and that is so ideal, honestly, and that’s great. And then if you don’t, maybe you need to kind of build that team yourself. And so like one of the things, like for example, I don’t do marketing myself. I can make some materials to help do that marketing, but I don’t run like social media or something. 

    Jennifer: Yeah, yeah, you’re not like managing the marketing process. 

    HR: Yea, I can help that writer understand how to build a really successful team for themselves.

    Sign up for Jennifer’s Promoting Your Book Online for Academics Workshop on April 12, 2025.

    Jennifer: Hmm. I like that. Now you don’t just do like book design and book covers. You do websites for authors too which is, I mean, that is like a marketing deliverable in the sense that it’s long-term. So why should authors have websites for their books?

    HR: Yeah, I know that is such a great question. And it’s really changed over a few years even, right? It didn’t always have to be necessary, or maybe someone has a LinkedIn page or something, some kind of digital version of their CV. Or maybe they’re a professor and they have a page on the university website or something. So why need their own website? And it’s such a great place to get to be in control of all your content for one, obviously, but then to get to really interact in different ways. So it can be this like digital up-to-date version of your CV and it can hold all kinds of things, including media and events and whatever you need. But one thing that has been so exciting to me the last couple of years, honestly, is I’ve gotten to work on some projects where it’s not just like a digital sales sheet to promote the book, but it gets to be this real extension of the book itself. So like, for example, you read a book and maybe there’s some images in it or something, or maybe you go to an event to support the book, but there’s some real limitations in how far that can go sometimes. And so, especially if a book really, and not all books need this, but some books really, really benefit from something a little more interactive or media-based or maybe someone is working with a lot of archives too, and they want to bring in different images. And that can get so exciting, I think. I’d love to, can I share just one project about that? 

    Jennifer: Yeah, yeah.

    HR: Like I’ve been working with this woman, maybe you know of her, Sasha Steensen. She’s a professor at Colorado State University. 

    Jennifer: Cool. 

    HR: And I’ve loved her writing for many years, but some authors I get to work with for, you know, well over a decade or more. I just love following their work personally, but she was working on this project and had institutional support and funding for it, which was so great. But looking at the past couple hundred plus years of her five acre property, and what happened on this exact plot of land in Colorado where she lives with her family. 

    Jennifer: Wow, that’s cool. 

    Open laptop with author website of Sasha Steensen called Overland on the screen. Overland is An Incomplete History of Three Acres and All that Surrounds.

    HR: Yeah, and like the archives, the federal transactional history there, a lot of devastation, all kinds of history on that exact spot where she spends her time with her family, right? And so at first we started making this website to help support that sort of already existing project she was doing. And then like once we’ve started building, there’s a number of pages on it, probably, I don’t know, 15 or so at this point.

    And then it’s like we started to understand like, “Oh, this website, maybe what it can do is really actually now helping drive some of the creative work of the project. It’s really exciting, it’s still ongoing, you can go check it out. Stuff like that, it gets so fun.

    Jennifer: Yeah, websites are so adaptable and like they can grow to fit your needs, but also they can inspire creativity and give you more flexibility with how you wanna reach people. So it’s fascinating that it sounds like once you started on the website together, it really grew and expanded based on what you were inspired to create long-term. I mean, all these things are so lasting, that’s why I love it. It’s like a book can get out there in the world, but honestly, it has potential to go out of print eventually or not get a second print run.

    HR: Exactly, there’s that. 

    Jennifer: And the website, the resources that you create, the conversations that you have about your book, those things can stay. Oh, fun! 

    HR: Which means you’re seeing that website at presentations and class visits. And it’s not just for like the general public randomly who comes to it. It’s like, it’s also a teaching tool. It’s also a research archive. It’s also all these things, you know. And it’s a book, by the way. 

    Jennifer: Yeah, and the book, and the book. (Laughing)

    Jennifer: Now, I’m curious, like, at what point did that professor reach out to you to maybe start working together? Like, at what point in your manuscript creation process should you start thinking about these things?

    HR: Yeah, that’s such a great question. I mean, in that particular instance, I’ve worked with her on a many number of projects. Book cover, her author website to begin with. You know, so many authors I get to work with on multiple projects- 

    Jennifer: I love that. 

    HR: For years and really do know their work quite well. But yeah, so it really varies. I mean, sometimes a project like this, the book is not published, it’s not done. It’s an ongoing, real place of discovery in this way. It’s kind of become this collaboration almost. 

    Jennifer: Wow. That’s so cool! 

    HR: Yeah, I mean, and that’s fairly unique, I would say certainly. Others like, I’m really not involved in the editorial process in most instances, right? You know, I’m there to help bring that book into that publishing process, whatever that looks like physically or digitally or however. And it’s generally speaking after editorial is done, after editing is done, and that kind of thing.

    Jennifer: What kind of transformation do you typically see with authors from before they have a website to after they have a website? Do their feelings change about it?

    HR: Yeah, that’s a great question right, definitely. Because before they have a website . . . Okay, for example I made this website a year ago or so for this author, Maureen Owen. She’s a poet, has, I don’t know, 30 or more books, something like this, dozens of works. 

    Jennifer: She’s prolific. 

    Open laptop with author website of Maureen Owen on the screen

    HR: Beloved poet, right? I’ve loved her work for decades. She’s never had her own personal website, but of course with her books, they’re on publisher sites, on Amazon, on random places. Goodreads of course. There’s all kinds of disparate places where she exists on the web, right? And she has university archives you know in multiple universities, these kind of official places even, but there was not one hub of her place, of her work. And, you know number one, that’s a bummer for the reader trying to just find out more about her or access maybe her work as a student or a grad student learning about her, any of those things. And so to bring all of that together was so great. I mean, and then, exactly, and then for her, that transformation is like people see her in a different way because now they’re seeing, you know, people who don’t necessarily know her personally say are learning about her and they’re able to learn about her in a more comprehensive way in one place from her own voice that she’s in control of because it’s her own website, right? 

    Jennifer: Yeah, well, it makes such a difference. Some of the professors that I’ve worked with, I mean, many of them are authors. The focus of the website is less book than I think the websites that you typically design. But one of the things that they tell me afterwards is like their friends and their family, like people who they weren’t even expecting as like an initial audience for their website, people they know actually feel like they can understand them a little bit better, they can connect with the book or help share it more effectively. So I really like that there are kind of like unexpected sparks that can happen once you are more open to creating that kind of online presence for yourself.

    HR:  Definitely, yeah, for sure. And being able to articulate your research about things or your interests, excitement, whatever that might be. 

    Jennifer: Yeah. Now this year, HR and I are going to be teaming up on some website VIP days. While of course you can work with just HR or just me, if you’re someone that is like, wow, how amazing would it be to have two professionals really thinking deeply with me about what is going to work for my website and actually creating it for you in a day?

    We’re happy to chat and see if we’d be a good fit to work together. We’re happy to help you.

    I also want you to know HR is an amazing resource. If you need a book cover, if you need the interior of your book design, if you need that book website or author website, you should definitely reach out to her. She’s so nice. And someone that I really trust, someone that I trust to sit there with you and to think in ways that’s going to make sense for you. Not just the way that your publisher wants your book to be, but have you be more of a part of that conversation than sometimes happens in the editorial world. Yeah, I just wanted to be sure to share you with people. 

    HR: Thank you so much Jennifer. I’m really super excited, honestly, to be collaborating with you. it’s such a great thing. And I think one thing you said a second ago. You know, to get to work with someone who you actually know who they are as a human being and trust them, that means like the world, right? I mean, how do you, it’s such an abstract thing to just be like, “Okay, now I need a website. What does that even mean, right? Like, how do I do that?” Like, how is anybody supposed to know and what do they trust to do that? And I’ve worked with so many people, honestly, who have been like, tried to do some DIY approach over the years or maybe they did something with a student 15 years ago or something. And it’s just like, they’re still paying some ridiculous thing to some web host that, and I look at their stuff. I’m like, “What is going on here? This is so unnecessary. You’ve been, this is ridiculous.”

    Jennifer: And you know it’s like, it’s unreasonable to think that anybody who’s not in that kind of field would just know what to do, right? I mean, like, I have professors who are like, information, technology, AI, like, really like experts in different tech areas that are like, “I’m not gonna learn how to make a website. Like, can I learn? Yes. But is it a good use of my time? Honestly, no.” And that’s okay. 

    HR: Absolutely, yea. 

    Jennifer: Like, you don’t have to do your website yourself, but also if you’ve done your website yourself and you don’t like it, don’t feel embarrassed. Like, come to us and we’ll help you. 

    HR: Really, no. Get it to a better place, for sure. And, you know, it’s not magic and it’s not rocket science. It’s just like, it’s something that is just valuable to bring up to speed, really.

    Jennifer: HR, is there anything else you feel authors should know either about the book design process or about author websites before we wrap up today?

    HR: I just think, especially in say a website when someone, it is really their project and they get to be in control of it, to just really kind of, to really take that, you know, get in control of it. And either if you’re building it by yourself or working with someone, to just know that it is your website and it is, you know the reflection of who you are as a creative person or an academic or whatever that is for you, researcher. And to just think, you know, it doesn’t have to look like one thing or another, it doesn’t have to be some template that someone is telling you to go with because it’s the easiest option or whatever. You know, there’s such a huge spectrum of how things can kind of come together. And a lot of people don’t even know what those kind of possibilities are. So it’s like, it’s that the person who wants that website or needs that website, you know, they get to be in this creative place and then the person who can help bring that to them can like show up with some really fresh ideas for them. And sometimes that like synergy is what’s so exciting to really make something happen.

    Jennifer: I love that. This was such a good conversation and perfect timing because I am having a How to Promote your Book for Academic Authors event next month. And so I think that having this interview is a resource that can help people. I mean, there’s so many different stages at which you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I think I need a book cover or I think I need this author website and I didn’t know I needed it before, but I need it now.” And if that’s you, I really, I hope you’ll reach out to HR, schedule a call to see if you’re a good fit to work together- 

    HR: Absolutely.

    Jennifer: Because it really is, it’s like a no pressure call. It’s very warm. And I think that you’ll find that it’s a good space for you to actually have someone who knows who can talk with you about these things, not just your editor or, you know, your publisher. You have options. 

    HR: For sure. And I love chatting with anybody and about what those options can look like too. It doesn’t have to be with me, but I’m absolutely happy to talk with anybody.

    Jennifer: Oh, that’s perfect. All right, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of The Social Academic. HR, how can people find you or get in touch with you afterwards?

    HR: I would also love to connect with you on my Instagram, @hr_hegnauer_design_studio.

    My LinkedIn, if that’s a way that’s good to connect. Any of those ways. And on my website, there’s a little button that says like, you know, come and book a consult. Like, I really mean it, like just do it. I talk with people all the time, every week, you know, and love hearing what is going on for them. It’s not like a sales call. You don’t have to be like that, you know. Would love to though connect with anybody or help out with a question if somebody had a question.

    Jennifer: I so appreciate your openness, HR. Thank you so much for coming on the show. 

    HR: Absolutely, thanks so much for having me.

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    HR Hegnauer on a driftwood beach on a cloudy day. She's wearing a brown zip up jacket and plaid shirt, smiling.
    Photo by Samantha Bounkeua

    HR Hegnauer is a designer, writer, and creative professional specializing in book and web design for authors, independent publishers, and artists. As the owner of a design studio, HR has designed over 350 books, creating award-winning covers and interiors for both print and ebook editions. She is recognized for her website design as a Squarespace Circle Gold Level Member, ranking in the top 8% of over 100,000 professional Squarespace designers worldwide. With over a decade of web design experience, she builds engaging, intuitive websites that help authors not only establish but also grow their digital presence.

    She is the author of When the Bird is Not a Human (Subito Press) and Sir (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs) and holds an MFA in Writing & Poetics from Naropa University, where she has also taught in the Summer Writing Program. With an MBA from the University of Denver, HR brings a unique blend of artistic sensibility and strategic expertise to her work. Her approach is highly collaborative, ensuring that every project—whether a book or website—amplifies the unique voice of its creator. 



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