Tag: Polk

  • Career Clarity for PhDs with Career Coach Dr. Jen Polk

    Career Clarity for PhDs with Career Coach Dr. Jen Polk

    Are you on the job market or seeking a new career? Professors and researchers, this interview is especially for academics considering leaving academia (or if you’re forced to leave unexpectedly). I’m happy career coach, Dr. Jennifer Polk of From PhD to Life is back for this 2025 episode.

    Jen’s been on The Social Academic to chat with me back in 2022 when we talked about Informational Interviews. She also joined me for a YouTube live in 2020 where she answered the question, What Is Networking? This year especially, mid-career and senior academics may be pivoting away from their more traditional academic career path. Many researchers and scientists in the United States of America have been let go. While there’s many resources out there to help with your next steps, such as the From PhD to Life blog, you may want personalized support from a career coach and community. We talk about Jen’s PhD Career Clarity Program which you may find helpful.

    While we talk about a service for academics in this and other interviews on The Social Academic, I don’t receive any gift or monies if you choose to move forward with Jen’s PhD Career Clarity Program. I share people including Dr. Jen Polk with you, because I trust and recommend her to clients and friends.

    In this interview

    Jennifer Van Alstyne [‘Jennifer’]: Hi! Welcome back to The Social Academic, a podcast, blog, YouTube channel about online presence for professors, researchers, PhDs, people who are in academia. Dr. Jennifer Polk is back with me today. She’s someone who we featured here on The Social Academic in the past. She’s been live on the YouTube channel, but this time we have new things to talk about. I mean, the social media landscape has changed in 2025. Jen, would you start by introducing yourself? 

    Dr. Jennifer Polk [‘Jen’]: Oh no, I’m on the spot!

    Yes, I’m Jen Polk. My business is called From PhD to Life. I work with professors, postdocs, and other PhDs who are ready to leave academia and go somewhere where they will be respected and valued and all that good stuff, even if they don’t yet know what the heck that could ever be. I’ll help them figure it out.

    Jennifer: I love that. You’re a career coach who’s like, you’re not new to this space, right? You’ve been doing this for a while.

    Jen: A while, indeed. What’s a while? More than 10 years? More than 10 years, yes.

    Jennifer: Amazing. 

    Jen: Yes. Someone called me the OG PhD career coach. Am I saying that right? OG, is that what the kids say? 

    Jennifer: OG, yeah. I love it. I love it. I’m curious because you’re actually like an early social media user, early online user. How have you seen things shifting or changing in social media in the past year or so?

    Jen: Big sigh, sob, hysterics. [Sighs]. Okay, one way of putting it is Twitter is dead to me. I mean, Twitter is dead, right? Twitter is dead to me and Twitter is dead. And now that was a big problem. And please interrupt me when I go on and on and on about this. Most of my clients the last few years found me via Twitter. Not 100%, but that was a big place where people got to know me and eventually work with me. And that was true for individuals who wanted to work with me as like for career coaching, guidance on their own individual job searches, as well as the folks who work in universities and bring in speakers to do workshops and presentations. And so a lot of my business happened in part on Twitter.

    Now, I don’t even go to Twitter anymore. So just for me personally, Elon Musk has ruined my life. No, I’m being dramatic. Yeah, just like that’s a small but sort of huge thing for me when it comes to social media. I mean, that’s the first thing that comes to mind.

    Jennifer: I’m curious, like, gosh, you’ve been such a prolific Twitter user. Are you finding community elsewhere? Like, are you using other platforms the way you used to use Twitter or what?

    Jen: Yeah, it’s a good question. And I don’t have a good answer because my answer right now is also a sigh. And I am on Bluesky, but I haven’t quite started using it for my career. Let’s put it that way. So it’s not that I’m not using it at all, but I tend to go on there more as like a personal, I want to share a thing. And ideally, if it was, if it made sense to spend the time, it would have a mix of like me as a person and me as a business owner that you could work with. That is how I always used Twitter. And Bluesky is different in terms of reach and engagement. That is not just because I’m bad at it, but that was like a deliberate, you know, that’s how it works. 

    Jennifer: I think that’s so helpful to share with people. I mean, like you are, you have a huge following on social media. Whether Twitter is dead or not, like people still follow you there. And yet on Bluesky, what was working for you in the past, maybe it doesn’t feel the same, maybe it doesn’t get the same engagement. The same thing on different platforms can have different results. And that’s something helpful for people to know when someone has an audience size of yours is still experiencing that, I don’t know, that frustration.

    Jen: Yeah. And something else that might be interesting for your audience is that I have mixed feelings, I mean, I have mixed feelings about so many things in life, but including LinkedIn as well. I go through like seasons with LinkedIn. Last year, what is it, 2025 now. So back in 2024, for the first almost six months of the year, most days of the week, I would say I was posting on LinkedIn. And yeah, I did that consistently for those first six months and I got out of the habit and I’m much more sporadic now and I want to like it, but it’s just never, it’s just never really done it for me the way it’s . . . oh, lament, lament for Twitter of old.

    I don’t know. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know social media, you’re not doing it for me, but I want to like it.

    Jennifer: Mm. Hmm. Now, there are so many job seekers right now, whether they’ve been laid off in federal government and their PhDs or their academics who are finding funding issues that are now unexpectedly needing to search for jobsl for their financial future. I’m curious, what we just talked about in terms of social media, how might that impact job seekers? 

    Jen: Man, it’s such a scary time. One thing that comes to mind for the impact on job seekers is folks that do have jobs in the US federal government, in the US in general maybe, in universities, I think they might want to be a little bit more circumspect if that’s the right word. A little more cautious about what they put out there. I mean, we’re reading like insane things. Who knows if they’re true, but like, is Grok reading your tweets? Is DOGE [Department of Government Efficiency], are the teenagers surrounding Musk like turning the AI on your tweets and deciding who to fire that way? Like, I don’t mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think there’s some evidence that, anyways, I think people might be right to be a little bit more cautious about what they put out there. Even Bluesky, my understanding is that Bluesky is open. So you don’t even, I mean, even though it’s not owned by bad faith actors, foreign actors, it’s still maybe, you still want to maybe be a bit cautious about it. I don’t know if that’s what you were getting at with your question, but that’s one thing. That’s not the only thing, but I think that’s one thing that folks might want to think about.

    Jennifer: Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that because that’s a question that’s been on my mind lately as professors who, this actually came up in a workshop, have sensitive topics. That was a good way of putting it. Sensitive in the sense that if they talk about it, the thing that they do in their research, in their work every day, they could attract hate. They could attract political controversy, even if they’re just posting about a new publication. And so this is actually something I brought up in a social media mastermind group that I’m in monthly because I wanted to hear how other people, how strategists who work on social media with companies and different agencies are handling the political divide. And it was really great to be open about the worries and fears that some professors are having right now. Yeah, everyone kind of said, “Airing on the side of caution.” Airing on the side of facts doesn’t even always work. It’s not enough anymore. And so really thinking about protecting yourself and having that feeling of safety, if you’re unsure before you post, maybe don’t do it. Ask a friend to look it over in advance. It’s hard.

    Jen: I hate it, right? I hate it. I don’t want this. I have a client who is, well, let me not give away too many details, but who is a target of bad actors, right-wing bad actors as a person that shows up on lists, the kind of lists that you don’t want to be on and that is just total BS, right? And her solution, one solution anyways, to continue to be a public intellectual, to write because that’s important to her, is that she has changed the name that she uses. So it’s still kind of basically the same name, but the addition of like an initial or, I forget exactly what it was, the decision, but like of using like the first name instead of the middle name kind of thing as just one, it just makes it easier to differentiate herself from the person who’s being targeted on the internet. And I thought that was a nice, you know, partial kind of practical thing that was in her control, you know, because she can’t scrub the web, doesn’t have any control over that, but she could, you know, add an initial or anyways, you know what I’m saying? 

    Jennifer: I really like that. That’s such a, it’s a doable solution for people when you’re unsure, just know that you have that option. And maybe now is a time that anonymous accounts could protect you. If you’re someone who does want to say something politically, and you don’t want it to touch your professional or your personal kind of social media. I did hear from a couple of people who do like to say, what is truth? What is science? What is facts? And they need to protect themselves in order to do that by creating maybe an anonymous profile that’s not connected with themselves. So there are options, even though yes, it is scary. Yes, things have changed. [Sighs]

    Jen: It’s just like you’re in that lament mode. 

    Jennifer: I know. I’m sorry. I’m kind of a downer. But honestly, I think that’s how people are feeling. And that’s what people are experiencing right now. So if we didn’t say it, it would be not right. 

    Jen: Yeah. The free speech brigade is, that’s not what they care about. I mean, this is obvious, right? But let’s just say we know that this is obvious. They don’t have consequences, but you might experience consequences. 

    Jennifer: Exactly. Exactly. Now, there are other ways to create content and you’re someone who’s actually for a long time tried different forms of content. Blogging is one of them. 

    Jen: [Laughs] In other words, you have failed so many times, Jen. You have failed to hit on the thing that works. 

    Jennifer: No. In other words, you’ve experimented with lots of different forms of media and you found things that really work for you for a time. And then sometimes you get curious about something else. And so you switch it up. 

    Jen: That’s a better way to put it. 

    Jennifer: I think that’s really what’s happened with you because you were prolific at the things that you do try and experiment with. And the From PhD to Life blog is one of them. I mean, when did you start that? That’s pretty old, right?

    Jen: It’s old. So unless my memory is going, I started, so From PhD to Life started as a blog and a website the same day, December 12, 2012. I bought the domain and I got the WordPress site and I wrote my first two posts, I think, if memory serves. Yes, back in 2012, I was really excited about it. The internet was a different place back in 2012, but that is how I started and that is how I grew my business in the early years. I was on Twitter pretty quickly as well, but first the blog, then came Twitter. I think important for folks to know is that although I started my blog on my own website, within, I think I’m getting this right, within a few months, I got asked to blog on an external site. So universityaffairs.ca, which is a Canadian post-secondary ed sector magazine. I don’t know if they’re still a physical magazine, but they were like a 10 times a year kind of magazine and they also had a website. And so I was one of their bloggers, one of their columnists as they called me, but just online. So that was amazing for reach in Canada and beyond as a legitimizing place. Again, the internet is different now, but that was cool.

    Jennifer: That is so cool. And you actually, I remember you won an award for that, didn’t you? 

    Jen: Three! 

    Jennifer: Three! You won three awards! 

    Jen: I mean, it’s been a few years now. I think back in 2015, 16, 17, I got the Gold Award in front of the Canadian Online Publishing Awards for best blog or column in the Blue category, which was for business. 

    Jennifer: Amazing. It’s amazing. I mean, it’s amazing because having a blog about PhDs seeking careers and finding a path that works for their life is like, that should be awarded. But I mean, it’s exciting that that’s the topic that they chose because your blog was so great. Now, the blog did win awards and it did have this big reach, but recently kind of disappeared from the university affairs website, which is typical. I will say like, websites do this. They take down the public writing sometimes in order to put new stuff up. And so when did you notice that it was gone?

    Jen: Yeah. So I think I noticed maybe late fall 2024, something like that. I noticed because I think it was when a client alerted me to a broken link in our online platform for my online course. And I was like, “Oh. Oh, it’s all gone. Okay. Okay. All right. Fair enough.” I know. Gut punch, stab, but also, “Yeah, fair enough.” Okay. It’s been a few years. I stopped blogging for them back in 2020. So it’s been a few years. They owe me nothing. But there was a bit of a moment of, there was at least some good content there that, of course, I didn’t have a record of because who’s that organized? Maybe everybody else listening, but not me.

    Jernnifer: No, when I’m thinking about it now, like my first two years of blogging, I backed up everything. Like I have like a word document of them at least. Recently, nothing. I don’t have anything saved outside of the website itself. 

    Jen: Well, it’s time. 

    Jennifer: I know, it’s time, especially after what happened with the University Affairs version of your blog. Now, what did you do? Like, that stuff was just gone and you had a solution for actually finding the most important things and bringing it back. What happened?

    Jen: Yeah. So the immediate issue was that there was this post that I’d linked to from my course that I think was a good one and useful. And I found it on Internet Archive. And so when it came time to think sort of beyond this immediate problem of like, “Okay, that one post, I want to continue to link to it. Oh, can I find all of the ones on Internet Archive?” In fact, I made a donation to Internet Archive because I was like, “Thank you so much!” Yeah. So then with your help JVA, I went through and picked out the blog posts that I thought were worth saving. I mean, there were, there were a handful that was like, “Eh, that was what I was thinking, you know, eight years ago, but whatever.” And yeah, you helped me put them on my website, copy and paste. Anyways, if you want to say more about that, I’ll let you say more about that. But I’m glad for that because now it’s on my site, I own it. Well, whoever owns the internet owns it. I feel like it’s a little bit more in my hands.

    Jennifer: Yeah. I think that process is overwhelming for people. So it was kind of nice that we got to do it together. But my father-in-law, for instance, is a critic of art. And so he’s had a long career where he’s written, I mean, like hundreds, like thousands, I don’t know, like so many reviews and articles that, when art critics were being laid off quite a while ago and since then, his writing has disappeared from, a lot of his writing has disappeared from the website. And they did give him permission to pull all of the things that he wanted. But like, is he going to go back through the Internet Archive and pull all of those things? No, he doesn’t have the same drive or motivation that someone like you does. So a lot of that stuff, it’s not lost. He has it in physically bound, beautiful books, but it doesn’t mean that it’s like accessible for other people. And so when that’s the goal, when like that’s what you want, yeah, sometimes the project takes a little bit longer than we might want. It can be a little bit frustrating to have to search down old things, but then you have agency and choice in what you do about it next. And so for Jen, she got to pick the ones that were most important to her, we put them back on her blog, on her website FromPhDtolife.com. And that’s something that you could do for your own website. There’s so many options for you, but just knowing that the Wayback Machine and the Internet Archive exist for you to search, it’s a huge tip for people. Actually, after we worked together on that, I went back and I found some things that I’d written as like guest posts for other people in the past that had disappeared. Like they weren’t on the blog anymore because maybe the business had changed or what they were doing with the organization had changed. And so it was really easy for me to pull my original writing, which I didn’t have a good copy of, and put it back on my website so it could still help people. And when I did, I still put a little note at the bottom that said this has originally appeared on this place because I still want to honor that original purpose for the writing. And it’s really interesting to see how we can create afterlives for the things that we’ve written and created. So I love that.

    Jen: Yeah, I will say one thing for folks to know, at least in my experience, the Internet Archive kind of crapped out after a few years. So if you’ve got stuff from like 20 years ago, well, is it even alive after 20 years, I don’t know. But anyways, just do it now. You know, put an hour or two in your calendar, do it now. Don’t wait for five years. 

    Jennifer: Yeah, right. Pull the content now and you can always do something with it later. 

    Jen: Yep. Yeah, it really only took me an hour or two-

    Jennifer: Perfect. 

    Jen: And I didn’t have your father-in-law’s archive, but you know, I had a few years of stuff. 

    Jennifer: There was actually more than I expected in a good way, in the sense that like it really created new life for those pieces of writing that were just lost in the Internet Archive. Now, I’m curious about how your website has kind of changed over time, because the website is 2012. That’s a long time to have a website and actually add new things to it. Like, that’s a lot of new things. So what’s it been like to have a website for that long?

    Jen: Whew, boy. Yeah. And for most of that time, I, and only I was the one doing all the things and you could tell. That’s okay, but you know. I always used a free WordPress. So it’s always been a WordPress and I, it’s always been on WordPress.org, is that right? 

    Jennifer: Yeah, that’s correct for you. 

    Jen: Yeah. And it’s always been connected to my domain FromPhDtolife.com. Anyways, I’m veering from your question. What was it, a year and a half ago that I hired you? Two years ago? 

    Jennifer: Yeah, something like that. 

    Jen: And you, so we’ve done this in two or three stages now. Which has felt manageable, you know, both financially and also in terms of my own need to do some homework, pre-work. 

    Jennifer: We only have so much capacity to do things for our own websites and stuff. 

    Jen: Yeah. So that was, I think that’s really a key point because I had not an outrageous number of pages, but it’s not, it’s not just a one page or two or three page website. There’s a few more pages than that. And for the most part I think my pages were ones that I wanted to keep, but they just over, over time they get longer like an academic CV, right? I’m thinking of like one or two pages in particular that they just, they just grow. You know, as if I was some sort of like tenured professor. So it was really good to say, “Okay, let’s focus on this page and this page and then let’s stop.” And then six months later, “Okay, now I’m ready to do this and this,” right? So that was, so yeah, it just made the process a lot more manageable. And now if you go to my website now, unless I’ve messed it up, unless I have messed it up, it’s looking so much more in-, it’s just more inviting and welcoming, easier for people to use and get at the information that will help them. Yeah, so that I can help them, whether they’re just looking at my website or wanting to take another step or two into working with me.

    Jennifer: Yeah. Like what, what does that look like? Like what if someone does come to your website and they want to take those next steps to work with you? How can PhDs, professors, researchers thinking of leaving academia, you know, work one-on-one with you, work in a group with you? How does that work?

    Jen: Yeah. So folks that are like raring to go. They have options to just pay me money and start working with me immediately. Of course, that’s not going to be most people, especially if you’ve never heard of me before. The main thing that I recommend, so this is for individuals who are interested in their own job search, right? You know, getting another job. There is a free webinar, it’s a video on my website and then there’s like a yellow button kind of all over the place. So I recommend starting with that. You can sign up, you can watch this whenever, you can put it in your schedule and watch it later. It’s got captions and you can press pause, all that good stuff, right? So that I really recommend because it is a, a rich intro to what I teach my clients and the step-by-step process that I recommend everybody go through from like, “Uhh” to “Okay!” You know, I have a great offer and I’m starting a job. Yeah, and then at that point, what most folks do is of course, they feel more confident and more ready to, and they just have a sense of, “Okay, I’m going to stop doing that approach and,” you know, shift my energies more in this direction. And they can go off and do it on their own. There’s a couple of options after that. Individuals can sign up for a one-on-one with me, over Zoom, phone if you want and we can go more in depth for an hour on, you know, your particular issue, whether that’s networking or LinkedIn, or I don’t even know what I should be doing for the rest of my life. Or even better, depending on the person, I have a program. It’s an online course plus, plus other stuff, right? I called a PhD Career Clarity Program and that’s really great for professors, postdocs, other PhDs who are ready to leave academia and leaving academia can mean that you are right now working in academia, or it can mean like in some way you still identify with that profession even if you don’t currently work there. I often get clients who already got a job outside of academia, but that’s not the right fit. So anyways, that’s a very long answer. Start with the free thing and then take it from there.

    Jennifer: I love that. And one of the things that we talked about when we were working on kind of the sales page for the PhD career clarity program is that feeling of hope that people have when they are joining this group and feeling like, “Oh, okay, now I can have that support.” What is the emotional journey for some of these people who are going through your program?

    Jen: Yeah, it’s really interesting because I asked one of my clients a while back, asked somebody that was in the program like, “Why did you join?” And what my, the things that I thought that she would share or that I think sort of in general people share is that they’re feeling kind of like, despair. Maybe not completely, but like there’s some moment of, there’s some feeling of, “I can’t do anything. I’m no good for anybody. Nobody’s ever going to pay me money to do anything. I can’t do it.” And I think sometimes that’s relatable for some people, not everybody. 

    Jennifer: Yeah, yeah.

    Jen: There are certainly other people that are like, “No, I’m feeling confident. I know I have something to offer. I don’t know what it is outside of academia. And so it’s not that I feel bad about myself. It’s that I need to figure out like, what is this called elsewhere?” So those are kind of two things that I had in mind, depending on the person. I mean, maybe you can tell resonated more personally with the first one.

    Jennifer: I think my husband did too. He’s also a PhD who felt some despair. Yeah. 

    Jen: Yes. So okay, you’re in good company. If you consider me to be good company anyways.

    Jennifer: Yes!

    Jen: So there was a third option that I found when I asked my own client who was in the program. And, I think of course she probably felt both of those two things. And a third thing, which is the moment that she decided to join the program, she felt hope. Right? It was like, okay, I don’t know. I don’t know what it is that I’m going to do. Right? I don’t, I’m not entirely sure about my place in the world and what I have to offer and how to tell people about who I am and all of that stuff. But I’m hopeful and I’m going to invest that hope, that energy, that time, some money into moving myself forward. And I really, I love that, right? Cause that’s actually, that was I think a missing piece in my understanding of where people were at. Because yeah, I want you to bring some energy, some hope into this, which is not to downplay any of the other emotions: good, bad, ugly. But I think there’s some . . . Yeah, I think that’s a good, that’s a good, helpful thing to have and a hard thing, a hard thing, right?

    Jennifer: The PhD Career Clarity Program has like a core course, it has workshops and resources. It also has a community. I’d love to hear a little bit more about that community aspect and how people from all these different fields are coming together and like actually finding support within their job search process?

    Yeah. So the community I would say tends to exist, communities are amorphous things, but I would say it comes alive for the most part during our live meetings. And I, there’s two types of live meetings. One is the small group coaching sessions, which these days I do three times a month for an hour. Those are drop-in, you know, bring yourself and whatever’s going on. And then three of those a month. And then once a month, you mentioned I do live workshops. That’s really where the community comes alive, yeah? And it’s really great because the question that sometimes folks ask me is, “Oh, have you ever worked with, you know, a biochemical engineer, right? Or have you ever worked with somebody who goes into like X specific company, right? And the answer could very well be yes, but then the second part of the answer is it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter because it’s really magical what happens when people with disparate backgrounds and career trajectories and, you know, knowledge, expertise and skill areas. In fact, we have a lot in common and that there are differences really enrich the discussions that we have because of course, we’re all different. We’re all different men, women, trans folks, like we, you know, life is different: mothers, fathers, people without kids, et cetera. But it really, it’s really great what happens when we’re together sharing updates and commiserations and strategizing and putting our eyeballs, you know, on each other’s resumes and LinkedIn profiles. I think it really helps people feel much more confident. Academia can be so siloed within disciplines that it can be difficult to imagine yourself stepping into a professional world where you’re not surrounded by other chemists or other anthropologists or whoever, right? 

    Jennifer: Yeah. 

    Jen: So in a way this is like part of growing your confidence, is interacting in a semi-professional space with people from different backgrounds.

    Jennifer: I think it sounds really warm. I think that I’m someone who personally had avoided community or group type things in the past and it was only in the last like five years or so that I have found not just comfort, but like comfortableness within myself because of group programs. Like because I feel more comfortable in smaller communities where we can actually get like a surprising amount of stuff done, whether it’s like emotional relationship building or whether it’s like really getting down and working on strategy and doing something harder. But like my resistance to group programs is like something that, I’m so glad that I have left behind because it really opens up my world to new things. So I’m glad you said that. Yeah.

    Jen: You know, when I started my business, I was doing one-on-one coaching and that’s like the typical model for someone with a coaching approach. And I sometimes do that now, but the coaching I do for the most part is group coaching. And it’s facilitation, group discussions, And that I think is, yeah, is just really powerful and fun. You know, I’m happy to chat with anybody who’s interested but concerned because I know that, there are concerns that people have like, “Am I going to be drowning in all of these other people? Am I going to be the odd person out with nothing in common with anybody else,” etc. But let me know. Let’s chat about it. It’s not for everybody, but I think it’s probably for you.

    Jennifer: I appreciate you, Jen. I’m so glad you came back on The Social Academic. Is there anything else you’d like to add before we wrap up?

    Jen: Big sigh. You know, I think there’s still connection to be made online. There’s still good people out there trying to make a difference in the world in the ways that they can, including online. 

    Jennifer: Yeah. 

    Jen: There’s still value in sharing what you’re about. Even if right now in some circumstances, you might choose to be a little bit more circumspect. There’s still value in that. And in the meantime, you may build community in other ways and that’s okay too. You know, you don’t owe your social media followers. Can I say this? You don’t owe them anything, right? You don’t owe them your presence. You don’t, you can choose to pause your activity and you don’t have to stress about it. I mean, what would you say?

    Jennifer: Yeah, I think that’s really good. I think that last year, personally, I leaned into more of the pause in the sense that like, I didn’t put as much effort into social media. I really tried to be more relaxed about it. And that meant I was posting less. It meant I was taking some long breaks, sometimes weeks. And it made a difference for my mental health, but it also made a difference for like my brain and what I was able to focus on instead. Letting go of some of that need to post was helpful for me. But on the flip side of that, if you’re someone who struggles to post, being conscientious, being cautious does make sense, but also know that there’s other ways that you can have a strong online presence, whether it’s filling out your LinkedIn profile, creating a simple personal website or portfolio website. There’s so many options for you. And it’s okay if social media isn’t where you want to be spending your time.

    Jen: Yeah, it’s great when people reach out and they write because they found you somewhere. 

    Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. 

    Jen: Why not that be the internet? 

    Jennifer: Exactly. So you can connect with Dr. Jen Polk on social media @fromphdtolife. And check out her website, https://www.fromPhDtolife.com for resources, transition interviews, and that awesome webinar that you can watch for free. Yay. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Jen! 

    Jen: Thank you. Always, always nice to chat, even if it’s a bit formal like this.

    Jennifer: And for everyone who’s listening, I’m going to drop the links to Jen and I’s past interviews on informational interviews and on what is networking so you can check those resources out too. 

    Jen: Can I say one more thing? 

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Jen: Just anybody who is thinking about hiring my friend JVA to help with your online presence, writing a bio, you know, let me be more specific, getting your website looking a little better, maybe a lot better. Do not hesitate. Act now. Run, don’t walk.

    It’s been really, really fun to work with you, Jennifer. And we’re going to do it again. I’m warning you now. We’re not done.

    Jen: Thank you. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the Social Academic, Jen.

    Dr. Jennifer Polk, photo by Nadalie Bardowell

    Jennifer Polk, PhD, is a career coach and expert on PhD careers. Since 2013, she’s worked with graduate students and doctoral degree holders based in Canada, the United States, the UK, Australia, and elsewhere. Jen created her PhD Career Clarity Program to help PhDs navigate their career paths with confidence.

    Jen has spoken on university campuses and at academic and professional conferences throughout North America on issues related to graduate education and career outcomes for PhDs. Jen regularly facilitates professional development workshops (now online) and delivers presentations for graduate students and postdocs. In addition, she currently serves on the board of directors for CAGS, the Canadian Association for Graduate Studies.

    Her writing has appeared in University AffairsInside Higher Ed, the Chronicle of Higher Education, the Globe and Mail, and Academic Matters. Her University Affairs blog (2013–20), “From PhD to Life,” won three gold awards at the Canadian Online Publishing Awards. She’s also contributed essays to three books: Moving On: Essays on the Aftermath of Leaving Academia (2014), Reflections on Academic Lives: Identities, Struggles, and Triumphs in Graduate School and Beyond (2017), and How to Get Your PhD: A Handbook for the Journey (2021). Jen was also an expert panelist for the 2021 Canadian Council of Academies report, Degrees of Success, on the challenges PhDs face transitioning to employment.

    Jen was co-founder of Beyond the Professoriate from the company’s founding until her departure in January 2020. Between 2014 and 2019 she co-produced and -hosted several online conferences attended by hundreds of graduate students, PhDs, and career education professionals. For several years she also ran Self-Employed PhD, an online network of freelancers, independent consultants, entrepreneurs, and small business owners. She hosted #withaPhD chat, a twice-monthly Twitter discussion, for three years. 

    Jen is actively engaged in online conversations about careers for PhDs, especially on social media. Follow her @FromPhDtoLife, or interact with her on LinkedIn and Facebook.

    Jen earned her PhD in history from the University of Toronto in 2012, and an MA and BA from Carleton University.

    P.S. To chat about working with Jennifer van Alstyne on your website or online presence, sign up for your no pressure Zoom call.

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  • What Are Informational Interviews? With Jennifer Polk, PhD

    What Are Informational Interviews? With Jennifer Polk, PhD

    Informational interviews can help your journey from PhD to Life

    Jennifer Polk, PhD has been helping PhDs get clear on their career path since 2013. You may have read her articles on University Affairs, Inside Higher Ed, and The Chronicle of Higher Education. If you’re on #AcademicTwitter, you’ve seen her tweets @FromPhDtoLife.

    Jen is an expert at helping grad students and people with doctorates confidently market themselves for the jobs they actually want.

    What are informational interviews? And, how can they help your transition from academia? It’s all in this interview with career coach, Dr. Jennifer Polk.

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    Meet Dr. Jen Polk

    Jennifer: It’s Jennifer van Alstyne. I’m here with Dr. Jennifer Polk. And we’re going to be talking about informational interviews today. You might recognize Jennifer from a live conversation that we had last year about networking.

    Dr. Jennifer Polk, I’m so excited that you’re here to talk with me. Would you mind introducing yourself for everyone?

    Jen: Sure, yeah. Thanks for having me!

    So feel free to call me Jen, everyone. Dr. Polk if you want to be formal, but Jen is perfectly fine.

    The short version is that I help PhDs get clear on their career path so they can confidently market themselves for jobs they actually want. Typically, that means outside of academia. But I’ve worked with everyone, on all the things.

    I have a PhD myself in history. I got that 10 years ago. These days, I’m self-employed. And it’s cool. It’s good work to be able to help people figure out what’s next, and get there. It’s very empowering.

    Jennifer: That’s great! Thanks for sharing that with me.

    Now, I know that it’s really hard to kind of imagine what life might be like outside of the academy for many professors who’ve been in for a long time. But also for graduate students who are going through and really trying to figure out what their next steps are. It’s something that’s affecting everyone, no matter where you are in your academic career.

    There may be a good opportunity for you outside of academia. Jen is someone that can help with that.

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    Jennifer: There’s a way that people can learn more about jobs outside of academia, and that’s through informational interviews. That’s kind of a jargon-y word. What is an informational interview?

    Jen: That was a great prompt. Yes, check marks to all of what you said. Totally.

    Informational interviews. If you haven’t heard this term before, it might sound very strange. It’s not very eloquent, right? But just know that it is a super common term. Even if you haven’t come across it before, it’s really common. It’s not just corporate. It’s common everywhere.

    All it means is having a conversation with somebody who works in a job, a field, for an employer, or who has in the past that interests you. The specifics of that conversation depends on what you want to learn.

    This is a learning experience. Sometimes people get the idea that this form of networking–yeah, an informational interview like it is a form of networking–but it’s not really about you. In fact, it is not about you pitching your services or you asking for a job. It’s a learning experience.

    I want to emphasize that it is a community building experience. Do you want to be in community with this person and people like them?That’s a short answer to what [an informational interview] is. Just conversating with somebody else.

    Jennifer: I love that. I think that so many people have a fear or anxiety about informational interviews. Maybe that’s because they don’t know what it is. It sounds like an info interview is a conversation you have with someone to learn more about their job, or their field. And learn more about them to see if they’re someone that you want to stay connected with, or maybe you want to do a job like that. Or, maybe you don’t. And that’s good information too. Thank you so much for clearing up that definition for everyone.

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    A small pug dog that looks anxious is wrapped in a blanket on top of a bed.

    Jennifer: What advice do you have for those people who are feeling really anxious, or scared, or nervous about approaching an informational interview?

    Jen: First off, what you described, Jennifer, is really common. If you are feeling that, welcome. You’re in really excellent company. I’ve been there, and so many of my clients, and the PhDs that interact with grad students, PhDs, all of the above have experienced that. It’s totally normal, common.

    Those feelings can be what prevent folks from taking the leap into doing informational interviews. You’re in really good company there.

    I’m not answering a question directly, but I will say that once folks start doing informational interviews, it’s like a light goes off. Everything changes. It’s really incredible. I think there’s so many different reasons for that. But I really encourage you to do it. Just take one step at a time. This is not the only way to do it. This is not like the way that is necessarily going to be right for you. But for example, it could be that you decide to do one informational interview with a person that you already know and trust.

    Jennifer: Oooh.

    Jen: Maybe they’re from your personal life, or family, or you worked with them years ago. So you don’t sort of already know everything about them in terms of their career, and their job, but you know there’s some level of comfort and trust. You say, “Okay.” Maybe you send them a text, or an email, Facebook message, whatever it is:

    “Hey, can we have a chat about your job? Because I’m thinking about what I want to do next, and I’m confused about what some options are. You work as a project manager. That’s something that intrigues me. Can we just have a convo so I can learn more about that?”

    This is relatively low stakes. That first step is important. Then you take another step after that. Right? This doesn’t have to be this big overwhelming kind of campaign that you go on. Just do it once. Send that one email, send that one message. That’s the first step.

    Jennifer: So just sending that first message, and maybe reaching out to someone who you already know, who you’re already familiar with. That can be a really good idea for people who are feeling uncomfortable, or nervous, or anxious about that process. I love that idea, and I think that that would make it so much less anxiety provoking for me. Like, “Oh, you know, I do have people that I could reach out to about that kind of thing. I can have a conversation with that friend that I haven’t talked to in a few years.” I’m sure they wouldn’t be upset to hear about it. If they don’t have time, that’s okay! But I can reach out. That’s pretty low stakes for me, so I really like that.

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    A close up of someone's brown leather shoes and tan slacks as they get ready to step down a stair.

    Jennifer: When people are reaching out for the first time, is there something that holds them back from actually reaching out? Is there something that’s like preventing them from doing that step?

    Jen: Yeah, to generalize, I think that folks can get in their heads. Shocking, right? Of course [sarcastically]. And they worry about things that are just way too many steps in the future.

    I always like to remind myself, and you know sometimes others is appropriate: that is a later problem. So, first off, don’t get in your head too much.

    I think what you said, that if they don’t respond, if they don’t have time, that’s not personal. That’s also a really important reminder. You can send the email. Whether they respond or not is not necessarily about you. Maybe they never checked LinkedIn. Maybe their parent just died. Maybe they don’t have any child care in a pandemic. You don’t know what’s going on, right?

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Jen: You know, decide not to take it personally. I will say that when you send that first message, your job is not done until you’ve sent the follow-up. I think that’s really, really important advice.

    My inbox is a mess, always. You know, direct messages [DMs] on Twitter or LinkedIn, there’s no kind of way to like Mark As Read, or file it into different folders. These things are just messy by nature. Not everyone is really skilled at managing their inbox. So, your job is not done until you’ve followed up. If you need to.

    Jennifer: That is such great advice. You know, I did this kind of workshop at the beginning of the pandemic that was all about How to Stay Connected During Social Distancing. During that workshop I taught people that you have to assume that people are busy, or that they’re too swamped with things in their own life to hear you the first time.

    That follow-up is not just a courtesy for them, but for yourself, because you do want to be heard. Right? Otherwise, you probably wouldn’t have reached out in the first place. Sending that follow-up is a good thing to do for yourself as well as the people who are around you.

    And assuming that people might not have time, or that their schedules might change, is going to set you up for not being disappointed. Just expect something to come up. And then if it does, you can be flexible with it. This is kind of a low stakes thing for you. You’re reaching out, and it’s okay if they’re too busy on the other end. Most of the time, they’ll tell you if they have the capacity to do so.

    Dr. Jennifer Polk, photo by Nadalie Bardowell
    Jen Polk, photo by Nadalie Bardowell

    Jennifer: One thing that I want to be sure to ask about is can an informational interview help you get a job? Does that get me a job if I do those? What is the correlation between informational interviews and careers?

    Jen: That’s a great question. So how are these two things connected? I already said don’t think of an informational interview as a way for you to ask for a job or pitch yourself to an employer. But it does happen.

    The outcome of informational interviews are unknown at the outset. And I have heard the stories. These are true stories that sometimes happen to folks where they do an informational interview and all of a sudden the person that they’re interviewing says

    • “Hey, you wanna join the team?”
    • “There’s an open position I think you’d be great for.”
    • “Hold up, something is coming through. I’ll message you when that happens.”

    This absolutely does happen. That can happen in your first informational interview, or your 150th. Purposefully, that’s a big number, I know. So, it definitely does happen.

    I would say you can be open to that. But that is probably not gonna happen to you. Especially, I would say, if you’re switching sectors potentially.

    Jennifer: Okay.

    Jen: That doesn’t mean there’s no connection. Learning really is important. Learning is important for you so that you

    • Can make better decisions about what you want
    • Have more of the information about what this job title is all about
    • What is this job ad actually mean when it’s translated through an actual person who’s doing it

    Is this employer actually toxic? Based on the job ad, you’re not sure, you know. The learning piece is really important for you to make good decisions.

    The learning piece also helps you craft stronger application materials because you get a sense from communicating interacting with that person more about

    • What that employer cares about
    • What that field is actually really about
    • What kind of stories they find compelling

    You can write better cover letters, you can write better resumes, and application materials. These are kind of indirect connections.

    A lot of the time when folks are thinking surface level, they will think, “Well, my informational interviews did not lead to a job.”

    Yes, they didn’t lead to a job directly. But then when you asked, what was the value of informational interviews?

    • “Oh, well I learned that there was a whole field I never heard about.”
    • “This new company that you know was doing exactly what I wanted.”
    • “There was this this job title that I thought was totally something different, but actually was exactly what I was looking for.”

    Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So indirect, very important.

    They are very self-affirming for a lot of people. They boost the confidence of people doing informational interviews. I’m not promising that, but that really is often an outcome, an unanticipated bonus. It is confidence boosting for a lot of people. It is affirming to have somebody give you some of their time, to give you advice. That is a gift, right? It’s a nice thing that they respect you. They take you seriously. They want to help you. That’s nice.

    Am I making sense? Like it’s good. And that helps your job search.

    Jennifer: Oh, yeah. I think that that confidence thing is something.

    If you’re one of those people who’s nervous or anxious about it, and you know that not only doing this can help you

    • With your career
    • Make better decisions
    • Network
    • Meet more people
    • Boost your confidence by practicing more and reaching out to more people that you admire

    I mean that, that’s great. That is some incentive to actually try an informational interview if you’ve maybe been on the fence. So, I love that.

    Jen: Yeah, now you’ve got this new person kind of on your team.

    Jennifer: I love that idea, having someone on your team was kind of true. The more I learn about someone, the more I want to root for them. The more I want to cheer them on. If I’m gonna sit there and talk with someone for half an hour in a way that’s helping them, I’m also feeling like I have a little bit of a stake in their outcome. Like I want them to do well.

    If you’re feeling that anxiety, remember that that’s someone who’s trying to help you, who kind of wants to be on your team. You can let them by reaching out. I love that.

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    A woman in a light pink dress and gold necklace sits at a round white table talking with a black woman in a blue shirt.

    Jennifer: How do you find people to do informational interviews with? How can people get started? I know you said that you can reach out to a friend or a family member, but what about people you don’t know? 

    Jen: Yeah, all of the above. Really everywhere. Some examples are in-person conferences. These as someone put it to me on Twitter today, “organic conversations.” So, after the panel, in the hallway. Right, totally cool.

    So from your professional life:

    • People that you’ve worked with in the past
    • Other professors in your department
    • Other grad students that you know have already graduated and gone off to work in industry
    • Anybody that you’ve interacted with professionally over the years is fair game
    • Social media.

    LinkedIn is kind of an obvious one. It’s a great one. These people can be total strangers, but I think it’s really helpful in terms of actually making the connection, and by that I mean like actually having the conversation, and not just sending the message. It’s helpful if there is some sort of connection already there (i.e. you have a person in common, you went to the same undergraduate institution).

    Twitter. People you follow, people that follow you back, are you communicating in the same thread? All of the above really matters.

    You can also just find people randomly online. Somebody was

    • On a YouTube channel
    • Participated in a podcast
    • Wrote a blog post that you admire

    I did that for one of the folks I did an informational interview with 10 years ago: a woman who wrote a blog post about AltAc career transitions. I looked her up. She was in Toronto. I’m in Toronto. She had an English PhD. I’m a history PhD. I was like well, there’s some connections there. So, I sent her an email. And not so far into the future we met in person.

    Jennifer: I love that!

    A raised computer monitor and raised laptop, turned off, on a desk with a brown leather mousepad/pen-holder and an open notebook with a pen. Behind the raised laptop on the windowsill are small succulents in tiny wood pots.

    Jennifer: I have a question. You said something a while back zero, to your first interview, to like 150 interviews. How many info interviews have you done?

    Jen: Oh, boy. I don’t know.

    Jennifer: [Laughs.] It’s a big number.

    Jen: Well, I probably haven’t done that many. And, not all of the conversations I’ve had that are informational interview-like were seen in that light at the time, if that makes sense.

    Jennifer: Even though it was doing the actions of informational interviews, it wasn’t necessarily considered an informational interview at the time.

    Jen: Yeah. Informational interview is a form of networking, but it’s a form of networking where you as the person doing the interviewing–doesn’t always happen this way in reality–but all you need to do is prepare a list of questions and ask.

    In that way, there is less kind of back and forth versus ‘networking more proper,’ if I can make that distinction, which is really meant to be a real true back and forth where both parties are sharing.

    I am not suggesting that in an informational interview situation you’re not being helpful, and there’s no back and forth. Just, if you’re feeling nervous about it, remember all you need to do is go in as a researcher with a list of questions. I say that to hopefully take the pressure off.

    So why did I say 150?

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Jen: There was a reason I picked that number. A client that I had last year, over the summer and fall, now it’s the summer again, so about a year ago. She did 150 informational interviews. She told me this subsequently. And that was a choice that she made. You know, there’s reasons why that suited her personality, why that suited her job search, we could talk more about that. The opportunities that she pursued came directly out of that and not out of her applying to jobs. So the jobs that she ended up getting, she took a couple of part-time contracts with startups and small organizations…

    Jennifer: Wow.

    Jen: Those came directly out of informational interviews. And never did she apply formally for a position.

    Jennifer: That’s amazing.

    Jen: Now, that is one example. There are many, many examples. But that is one true real life example.

    Jennifer: Oh, that’s great. 150 interviews helped that particular person because it matched their personality to do a lot of them. And it helped them find the career path that they were interested in. So that’s very cool.

    What if you’re like, “Oh my god, 150 is nowhere near what I’m capable of. I can do like five informational interviews?”

    Jen: Yeah, I think five is a great number.

    Let me talk about my process when I advise PhDs on the job search. And when I say PhDs I mean people that have a PhD, people that don’t have a PhD but sort of you know relate, grad students, all of the above.

    The process that I would recommend is first to kind of get right in your mind about what is going on. So I call that Prep.

    And then you go into Focus. And this Focus section is you want to focus on yourself. That’s basically self-reflection, right? What do you want? What do you need? What do you have already?

    Then, the third step is Identify. Identify some possibilities. That’s when you do research. A big part of that research is probably going to be informational interviews. But that’s not the only type of research you’re doing.

    If you have limited capacity for informational interviews, at least right now, you can really emphasize the other types of research. But you’re going to do it strategically. You’re going to get your mind right. You’re going to focus on yourself.

    And then you’re gonna say, okay, based on what I’ve learned about myself, what are the types of jobs that I want to do some research on by reading

    • Job ads
    • Company websites
    • Blogs
    • Listening to podcasts

    To learn more about whether these things would align with what I know about myself.

    Jennifer: Right.

    Jen: Then you’d be very selective, “Okay, so it seems like project management is a role that is really going to suit me. Or, instructional designer.” Let’s say, “Those are the two that I’m really thinking. I haven’t really talked to anybody yet about them.”

    Then, “Okay, let me go and talk to five people. Maybe three for one, and two for the other. And see you know, if I’m on the right track.” And maybe you are. Maybe you’re not, right? Maybe you need to pivot a bit. Maybe you decide, “Well, it’s not instructional designer. It’s more educational developer I’m going for, which is slightly different.”

    Maybe at that point you decide you want to do more informational interviews. But the first five were really helpful in narrowing and pivoting. Does that make sense?

    Jennifer: That makes so much sense. I absolutely love that. It sounds like having that process, having that kind of approach really helps people who are going through this.

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    Jen Polk's PhD Career Clarity Program sign up page on a laptop screen. The laptop is on a small black table next to a stemless wineglass filled with water. In the background is a potted plant and in a couch.

    Jennifer: Can you tell me a little bit more about your program? I’m sure people who are listening want to hear about it because it might be right for them.

    Jen: Yeah, thanks for asking. Let me finish the steps here. So yeah: Prep, Focus, Identify. Right? That’s where you really want to narrow down like, “Okay, this is what I’m going for.” So  this person has decided on educational developer, right?

    Then step four is Market. I use that term purposefully: Market to employers. That’s when you want to write your resume and worry about your LinkedIn profile, or not, depending on your job search.

    Jennifer: I bet some people are really surprised right now. They’re like, “I thought I needed my resume first.”

    Jen: No.

    Jennifer: People, you really need this program because this is telling you that you might be putting your energy into the wrong places at the wrong time. Oh, I love that, Jen.

    Jen: Yeah, exactly. Thank you for saying that. So, do those things last, folks.

    Jennifer: Wow, yeah.

    Jen: Don’t skip the earlier stuff. That’s what I found. That’s why I built it this way.

    So what is my program? So I have a PhD Career Clarity program. This is a paid program. It’s 12 months access. That doesn’t mean that it takes 12 months, but you’ve got 12 months because you know everyone’s life is different. And job searches can take time depending on you.

    It’s basically an online course, self-paced. You go at the pace you want. It’ll take you through all of those four steps from “I don’t know if I even I’m ready to job search or want to,” all the way to interviewing for positions.

    But let me say, if you’re thinking about it, or you’re not even yet thinking about it but you’re curious, I do have a free training for PhDs.

    Jennifer: If you’re even thinking that you know a program like that might be helpful for you, want to get that group coaching in then be sure to sign up because that free workshop is going to give you more information about it. And it’s going to tell you some of those myths that might be holding you back from really getting clarity on your career, what you want to do next.

    This is your life, right? This is important. It’s a big decision to figure out what kind of path you want to go down. This is a great program that can help you get there. I can vouch for that because my fiancé needed this program to help and figure out his next steps. He’s been in it for months now, and found it really helpful.

    So I encourage you to sign up for that free workshop.

    Paper cutouts of speech bubbles with question makrs on them

    Jennifer: What’s a really good informational interview question that I should add to that list?

    Jen: Kind of taking a step back from your question: what to ask you can Google the stuff and get lots of different lists. There’s value in that. Take a quick scan of what people say.

    But ultimately, you want to go through: what do you actually want to learn from this person? What do you want to learn from them right now? Really do that introspection to decide what is most important.

    Why do I say that? I had a client a couple of years back. He came to me and had already done a bunch of informational interviews, probably a dozen or two of them. And it just wasn’t working. 

    I was surprised, but it turned out, and this was his insight, that he’d done informational interviews because that was a task that had been suggested to him as a thing that he needed to do. So he went out and did it, but he never actually really cared about the people and the career paths that he was learning about.

    He didn’t care, right? So it was really just a road exercise for him. Aha, okay. Once he determined, “Well actually, I really am interested in this. And this person is really cool because…” That like additional energy and interest, then the informational interviews just were totally mind expanding.

    What is a good question to ask in informational interviews? It really is going to depend, classic academic answer, on what you really want to know.

    Sometimes folks, I think there’s a real skill in asking questions. You might not be as skilled at it yet as you can become to be.

    One tip is that sometimes you might think, “Well, I’ll just ask this person what their salary is.” But you’re like, that’s kind of inappropriate, but I want to know what I can expect to make. Aha, well then that’s the question you want to ask.

    Instead of asking the person how much money do you make? Or, how much money did you make when you first entered this field? Which is the first question a lot of folks think to ask, what do you actually want to know:

    • How much money could I expect to make?
    • What is a reasonable range for somebody with my background in experience pivoting into this role?

    Jennifer: That is a great question. Making it about yourself really helps take that kind of pressure off someone to talk about their own salary.

    Jen: Exactly.

    Jennifer: They may open up about it anyway. They may be totally fine talking about financial things. But putting the onus on you, making it about yourself, seems so much nicer. I like that. I’d feel much more comfortable with that.

    Jen: A similar piece of advice to that is sometimes you think, well let me ask this person about something specific to them. Or, specific to their team, or employer. When actually what you really want to know is the trends in that sector or field in general. Does that make sense?

    Jennifer: It does.

    Jen: Right. I mean maybe you do want to know about that company specifically, but typically you probably don’t.

    • So instead of: What are the parental leave provisions on your team?
    • What you really want to know is: What are the parental leave trends that you’re seeing in this industry in general?

    Jen: Oh that is some next level thinking. My fiancé has been doing informational interviews and learning from all these people. He’s definitely getting some great insights. But thinking about the trends, thinking about how it’s affecting more than just the individual, is a bigger approach. Wow.

    We’re all researchers, right? We’ve all done that in our work. But researching your field, researching what you want to do next, is not something that people are always thinking about putting energy into. But it can really pay off. I just love that informational interviews can really help people experience some of that excitement, be warned about some toxic workplaces, I mean get the information that they need to actually make decisions for themselves. So that’s my favorite thing about it.

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    Dr. Jennifer Polk

    Jennifer: Is there anything else you’d like to add about informational interviews before we wrap up?

    Jen: Let me repeat something I said earlier. That this is a real sticking point for a lot of folks. That they get stuck. And even folks in my program.

    In the program, it’s a self-paced online course, but I’ve got regular live small group meetings over Zoom. Sometimes folks come and I ask, have you done informational interviews yet? It’s like, “No, not yet. I’ve skipped ahead.” It’s like, “Thank you. Well let’s talk about that.” Right? Don’t skip this stage. There’s different approaches, different strategies for every specific person, of course. And we can talk about that.

    I think: Just do it. You can talk about why and how, et cetera. But ultimately, just do some.

    Join the PhD Career Clarity Program with the bonus ‘Sample Emails for PhD Jobseekers’.

    Jennifer: Yeah! And if you do it, you can build some confidence. You can do some networking. You can really get comfortable talking about yourself, and asking people questions. You can get better at asking questions. There sounds like so many benefits, it’s kind of like well you definitely should be doing this. But also you’re gonna benefit from it too.

    Thank you so much for talking with me today about all of this. Everyone who’s listening, be sure to sign up for that free workshop from Jen. You don’t want to miss that.

    Jen, how can people get in touch with you?

    Jen: Yeah, awesome.

    So, I spent way too much time on Twitter. If you’re on Twitter, I’m there. My handle is @FromPhDToLife.

    That’s also my website FromPhDToLife.com.

    You can find me on LinkedIn at Jennifer Polk, PhD. I’m happy to get messages there.

    I’ve also got a Facebook page From PhD to Life.

    And you can email me Jen@FromPhDToLife.com. I’m happy to get your messages. And follow up if I ignore you.

    Jennifer: That’s right, follow up! Be sure to follow up.

    Well thank you so much for listening to this interview. Be sure to like this interview. And subscribe to The Social Academic so you don’t miss the next one. Jen, thank you so much for joining me!

    Jen: Yeah, you’re welcome. It’s always fun to chat. I’ll be back in a year or two, right? No pressure!

    Jennifer: That’s right! [Laughs.]

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    Bio for Jen Polk, PhD

    Jennifer Polk of From PhD to Life on The Social Academic

    Jennifer Polk, PhD, is a career coach and educator. She regularly facilitates professional development workshops and delivers presentations for students and postdocs. Her University Affairs blog was a three-time gold winner from the Canadian Online Publishing Awards. Jen’s essays have also appeared in Inside Higher Ed, the Chronicle of Higher Education, the Globe and Mail, Academic Matters, as well as in three books.

    More recently, she was an expert panelist for the 2021 Canadian Council of Academies report, Degrees of Success, on the challenges PhDs face transitioning to employment. In addition, Jen currently serves on the board of directors for CAGS, the Canadian Association for Graduate Studies. She earned her PhD in history from the University of Toronto. Find Jen online at From PhD to Life.

    Check out her free job search training for PhDs thinking about leaving academia.

    Interviews The Social Academic



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