Tag: Writing

  • Writing, Radical Imagination, and Social Justice with Anthology Editor Dr. Andrea Rexilius

    Writing, Radical Imagination, and Social Justice with Anthology Editor Dr. Andrea Rexilius

    Dr. Andrea Rexilius joins me on The Social Academic to talk about her new edited anthology, We Can See Into Another Place: Mile-High Writers on Social Justice (The Bookies Press and Bower House 2024). This innovative, multi-genre anthology brings together writers and faculty from the Mile-High MFA Program at Regis University in Colorado.

    In this featured interview, Dr. Andrea Rexilius joins me to talk about social justice, radical imagination, and the power of storytelling. Read Andrea’s bio.

    In this interview

    icon of a microphone

    Meet Andrea

    Jennifer: Hello everyone. Welcome to The Social Academic. This is Jennifer van Alstyne and we are right after Election Day [USA]. So there are a lot of feelings and emotions out there. And even though this episode isn’t gonna air for a little while, the topic we are talking about today is social justice.

    I’m very excited to bring my guest, Dr. Andrea Rexilius, to talk about this new anthology, We Can See Into Another Place: Mile-High Writers on Social Justice. Andrea, thank you for coming on The Social Academic. Would you introduce yourself for people?

    Andrea: Sure. Thank you Jennifer. Good to see you. I am a professor and writer living in Denver, Colorado, teaching at Regis University in the Mile-High MFA and Creative Writing Program. I think that’s all I’ll say.

    Jennifer: Great. I’m curious because you’ve reached out to me about this episode and I’m wondering what prompted this anthology? What made you decide to bring together these faculty, these writers from the Mile-High program together into one collection?

    Andrea: Well, they’re such interesting writers. They’re varied in terms of their genre, their aesthetic, which is also representative of the program that they were all teaching in. But a lot of them, there’s about 20, 21 of them in the anthology, and they don’t all always overlap. So I wanted to kind of, since they’re all part of that same conversation, teaching similar students working with the Mile-High MFA program at various times over the last nine years. I just wanted to put them a little bit more in conversation with each other, especially some of them that hadn’t crossed paths before, just to celebrate all of them together and share their work with, I think some of them probably looked each other up, but just to share their work with one another and with the public, with everybody else, because there’s just tremendous writing coming from all of them.

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    A multi-genre anthology

    Jennifer: Yeah, the collection was tremendous and emotional and almost fraught with language that really pulls you in.

    I’m curious, the anthology brings together a lot of genres, like multi-genre anthology. What made anthology and book the right format for sharing these stories?

    Andrea: Yeah, I think in terms of anthology, it was kind of unusual to gather a kind of multi-genre format for an anthology. They’re traditionally fiction or their creative nonfiction or their poetry. A lot of writers only maybe read in one of those genres. A lot readers only read in one of those genres. We also have a graphic narrative, a comic strip in here. We have some playwriting.

    And so all of those different ways of kind of conveying ideas seemed interesting to gather into one publication and to sort of begin to maybe break down some of those barriers across genre. There’s more and more interest in hybrid writing and reading hybrid materials, but something that actually celebrates genre distinctions and also genre overlap seems like an important thing to sort of add to the literary conversation.

    Jennifer: I felt like your essay at the start, the introduction was so powerful in terms of shaping, the openness and the hope and the tenuousness that writers can achieve through storytelling. I found myself transported into each one of those writer’s forms. It felt like I was jumping from poetry to play to that, the graphic one, it was just overwhelming in the sense that I hadn’t really considered so many voices on this subject in the genre-bending kind of format. It was a different kind of experience to me compared to other things that I’ve read about social justice that I’ve watched about social justice this year. And it felt more powerful because of that. Like the collective of voices and the difference in genre made it more meaningful and impactful for me.

    Did you find that when you were putting together, the different sections, and the layout for the book?

    Andrea: Yeah, absolutely. It was really interesting because initially what kind of bound the writers together was their overlapping relationship with the MFA program. But I also just wanted to create an artifact of that kind of archive. All of those voices that were part of that community at the Mile-High, which is still continuing on, but that’s the first nine years of it. And I didn’t have the theme so much in mind when I first started gathering things. I wasn’t sure, is this something I’m just going to make as a kind of PDF that I make available to the community? Or, am I going to try to seek out a publisher, and put it into the larger world?

    Pretty early on I had begun gathering some things and in the process of gathering them, I started shopping around some local presses in the Colorado area to see if it might be something they’d be interested in. And as sort of a long answer to what you asked me. But as I was shifting into, “Okay, it’s actually gonna be published by a press, it’s going to be a book that is available to anybody. It’s not just sort of in-house community. I started noticing patterns in the early submissions. And that’s where the theme began to develop from.

    Also, seeing like how some of the poems communicated with the fiction, just the little overlaps and detail that were coming in were really interesting. That’s how the [Young Adult] interview got in there as well. ‘Cause there were so many writers, like Stephen Dunn’s piece, Addie Tsai’s piece, Lori Ostlund’s piece, where they’re talking about experiences in high school or as young adults and how writing impacted them, why they became writers and avid readers, and what their experiences to were with reading. They weren’t always delightful.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Andrea: So that started to kind of naturally grow out of the process of gathering those submissions.

    Jennifer: And for those of you who are listening, Stephen Dunn did appear on The Social Academic a few years ago. So be sure to check out that interview.

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    ‘The brain is wider than the sky’

    Jennifer: I’m curious, who do you feel should really read this book? Who should go out and buy a copy or buy it for someone that they know or love?

    Andrea: I mean, on the day that we’re recording this, I would say everybody should go read this book. I mean there’s many different representations and iterations of what we mean by social justice in the book, you know? It speaks to social economic stuff. It’s speaking to race relations, all kinds of different power dynamics speaking to neurological difference, the environments. It’s just a wide swath of what we think about when we are collectively, socially trying to enact justice for ourselves and our daily lives. But it also, like, the thing that I think about when I come to social justice is the idea of ‘radical imagination.’ And the idea that the mind, the interior, I quote Emily Dickinson at the beginning of the book, I love, I’m a poet, so I’m always referencing her, but she has a line, ‘The brain is wider than the sky.’ So this idea that like the mental space, the interior space is larger than this external world. It can imagine anything.

    So when it feels like something, when possibilities are shutting down, I think the most powerful thing you can do is just remember that you have your own imagination. You can envision a different way forward. You can still be disappointed. You know we still have all of our emotions in relation to these things, but being able to maintain and hang onto that hope and awareness that like it’s always yours. It’s always in you. You always have that power of the interior and the mind to think differently than what the external world might be kind of crushing you into thinking and feeling and being.

    Jennifer: Ooh, that was powerful. I needed to hear that too. I’m like crying. I’m like, what do I have tissues near me? And I don’t. But what I really gravitated toward from what you said is the word, ‘hope.’ Like the imagination can create hope. It can create futures that we haven’t experienced or thought of. It can be world opening. How do you hope this book can inform or provide an entrance into some kind of change or transformation?

    Andrea: Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, I’m gonna quote a couple things and then talk about the final section of the book.

    Jennifer: I love that

    Andrea: My frameworks at Emily Dickinson again, “I dwell in possibility” because I think so much of diminishment of hope is feeling that the possibilities are becoming fewer and fewer. But again, that idea of radical imagination, if we can imagine something different than what we are being told must happen, or that there’s this kind of non-linearity, there’s always a possibility for something to shift or to swerve. And the more we think toward that possibility, I think the more empowered we stay.

    And then this Toni Morrison quote was so important in thinking about putting together this book. She says, “Don’t let anybody convince you this is the world is, and therefore must be, it must be the way it ought to be.” That speaks similarly, I think to the Emily Dickinson piece about possibility that nothing has to be any particular way. Sometimes it’s that particular way.

    But knowing that we still have so much inside of us that can speak out, that can share our experiences, that can voice things that the dissent from the powers that be, I mean, hopefully we retain that powers. I mean, people go underground, they make zines. We get the word out in whatever way we need to. And right now there’s this book, the last section, we move into questions for the reader that kind of bring you into this state of reflection and get you in touch with your own ideas and imagination.

    So, what would you like to give voice to? How do you survive and thrive when everything feels like it is on fire? That’s a great question for today.

    Jennifer: Today’s the day for that one. Woo.

    Andrea: And probably in the coming days and first of the year, that’ll be a great one to speak to. What is your hope for re-imagining of our societal and cultural future? What actions would help us move individually and or collectively toward that re-imagined future? So finding ways to bring those spaces, those radical imagination and those imaginings into external action, to starting small, making it grow larger, finding people to share your voice with who, who have similar thoughts and feelings, putting it in a book form, reading something where other people speak to that.

    Jennifer: A lot of professors, faculty members are listening to this podcast. And I’m curious, is this a book that would fit well in like a classroom discussion? Is this something that can or should be taught?

    Andrea: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think it would be great for high school, for college or book clubs for all kinds of reading groups because they’re part of the multi-genre aspect too. There’s something in it for everybody. If you’re not super into reading essays, there’s a comic. If you don’t love poetry, there’s short stories. If you aren’t into any of that, there are some interviews with why young adults, authors at the end.

    There’s places for you to do your own thinking and writing and responding to whatever was in the book. It’s meant to be engaging in that way, to invite people to participate in the conversation of the book, and to add their own voice if they think something’s missing from it, if there’s something, that they wanna add, all of those openings are are there. And it would be great.

    I think too, just thinking about in a classroom setting, thinking about how the different genres and pieces in here speak to these topics as well. What unique things happen formally in short story or poetry or essay. So yeah, thanks for asking that.

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    Bringing faculty and writers together

    Anthology Contributors

    Olivia Abtahi

    R. Alan Brooks

    Steven Dunn

    Carolina Ebeid

    Steven Cole Hughes

    Kristen Iversen

    Traci L. Jones

    Tarashea Nesbit

    Lori Ostlund

    Khadijah Queen

    Jenny Shank

    Suzi Q. Smith

    Christine Sneed

    Mathangi Subramanian

    Addie Tsai

    Denise Vega

    Rachel Weaver

    Erika T. Wurth

    David Heska

    Wanbli Weiden

    Andrea Rexilius, editor

    Jennifer: Now, as editor, maybe you don’t have like favorites, but I’m curious if you have one or two pieces you could share with us that especially faculty members might find a spark, or something that really draws them in.

    Andrea: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Steven Dunn and I think his piece in here is just absolutely brilliant. And he is speaking about his experiences in English class and then feeling left out of that conversation, feeling like it’s a conversation just for white people. He’s only reading stories written by white authors and is being told that his voice is incorrect, that he needs to correct his grammar, his way of being, his way of speaking. And I think that’s another thing like that this book demonstrates to some extent, through the genre, but also part of what we were all trying to do in the program together with students was just let every let people know like, you can be who you are.

    So in order to be a good writer, you have to speak, you have to get in touch with what, who you actually are and what you actually want to say. And that’s when the writing becomes the most powerful. You shouldn’t be trying to conform your voice to anybody else’s. And I hear that in Steven’s piece and Addie Tsai’s piece.

    There’s a lot of interesting reflecting in a lot of the pieces too: David Heska, Wanbli Weiden is writing this essay about his grandmother who was in a Native American boarding school that are infamous for, cultural obliteration and all kinds of horrific things. And she has this nostalgia for the boarding school.

    He’s kind of reckoning with that, and sort of wondering why, answering why she might have that nostalgia in really interesting, complicated ways. And the ending of that piece I think really speaks to that reckoning with his grandmother’s state of mind and why she might have had that nostalgia and what other of nostalgia she had. I don’t wanna spoil the ending, but that’s one of my favorites because it.

    Jennifer: I loved that piece.

    Andrea: Yeah.

    Jennifer: I’d be happy if you’d be open to reading something. That sounds great.

    Andrea: I’ll read maybe a little bit from Steven’s piece that I was talking about. More beige. All right. I dunno what happens. Okay. It’s a snow day here. I usually am wearing bright colors, but I’m engaged. So this book to, or the piece from Steve Dunn, it’s from a book that he is working on called Travel With Nas, and he is co-writing it with a bunch of his friends and family members, which is, so it’s a collaborative project. He recently published another book, Tannery Bay, which he co-wrote with Katie Jean Shinkle. So that idea of sort of conversational collaborative writing comes through in his work in general too.

    Jennifer: I love that.

    Andrea: This is Intro / An Excerpt from Travel with Nas by Steven Dunn.

    “I grew up in a small town in West Virginia: Kimball (population 500). I read a lot before going to middle school, but outside of textbooks and newspapers, I read only one book from the ages of 12-21. I’m a novelist now, a Creative Writing professor, and I write book reviews.

    Reading only one book was partly an institutional fault, and partly my fault:

    Partly my fault because I cared more about math painting and maps.

    Partly an institutional fault because of poverty. And we were assigned only one little funky ass book throughout middle and high school, The Old Man and The Sea. We watched Of Mice and Men, Grapes of Wrath and Little Women. I hated English classes because they were mostly about correcting our language by prescribing us with ways to speak. We learned that the generations of language we celebrated in, cried in, analyzed with and joked in was wrong. And the books were about white people and white problems and white triumphs and white hopes and white dreams. So I was like, ‘Fuck English and literature and all that white bullshit.’ I was right and I was wrong.

    I was wrong about English and literature because of course Black people have been writing literature about us, I just didn’t know shit about it, And them white folks ain’t care enough to teach it. I was right because I was listening to rap. And I was wrong because I was listening to rap.”

    —Steven Dunn

    Jennifer: Oh, Steven Dunn’s words are so powerful. I love that he’s interested in collective writing and also that he posts about the writing that he does on Facebook. So even if you’re not, the book’s not out yet, but like, I feel like I know a little bit more about Nas and about his process of writing it because he’s open to sharing it.

    Online presence as an author

    Jennifer: Actually, that kind of brings me into my next question. I’m curious about your online presence as an author. What’s it like to be a faculty member and a writer, and just like a person who your personality is like quite vivacious in the sense that it’s so memorable. How do you craft all of that online and show kind of your personality when you are in online spaces?

    Andrea: Oh, wow. That’s a great question. I’m pretty introverted. Pretty like, I feel like it’s hard to know how that comes across. But I think of my social media, the way I curate it, because we’re all sort of curating it to some extent. I’m trying to maybe express my academic self on there, posting about books, about readings, sharing events with students, trying to kind of build that community with the MFA students and everybody in the Front Range, bringing different communities that I’m part of together. I’m teaching at Lighthouse Writer’s Workshop, a community creative writing place, and also at a Regis University. So sort of colliding some of those folks at times. And then I have my sort of like more artsy poetic life where I am doing some volunteer classes at this farm in Lafayette [Colorado] that some of my friends run.

    Jennifer: Really?

    Andrea: They have a little, they have a farm share. It’s called Community Farm

    Jennifer: That’s so cool.

    Andrea: And there’s an art lab. So I had a former student of mine donated a bunch of arts supplies, and so it’s just overfilling with art supplies. So I’ve been hosting like collage and mask making parties there.

    Jennifer: Ugh, that’s amazing. Mask making parties. I’m so jealous. So Dr. Rexilius and I know each other from Naropa University at the Jack Kerouac School back when I was in my MFA program. So I’m so excited we’re having this conversation now, but I am super jealous of these art classes. That sounds so fun. And I love What I see from you on social media is a lot of your artistic side. Like I remember your moth costume, your masks. Like I love seeing that part of who you are in online spaces for sure. What about as an author, we talked about like what you do for your community.

    Andrea: Right. Right.

    Jennifer: What’s it like talking about yourself as an author online? That one’s really fun [Andrea holds a mask to her face].

    Andrea: Talking about myself as an author, I probably should do more of that because I tend to keep my process pretty low key. I don’t share about my writing process as much. I share more about the end result. I might share more about my creative process. I share more of the kind of masks and art making that I’m doing visual art making.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Andrea: But if I have something finished published, then I tend, I’ll share that.

    Jennifer: Nice.

    Andrea: Yeah. But I like to keep my process a little bit more to myself because I like to have it untouched by other opinions.

    Jennifer: Oh, I’m so glad you shared that. That’s a really nice perspective. It’s not so much as private as protecting it almost.

    Andrea: Yeah.

    Jennifer: Like protecting your process. That’s beautiful. Oh, thank you for sharing that with me. I’m curious, is there anything you really dislike about social media or about being online?

    Andrea: I don’t like social media.

    Jennifer: You don’t like it at all? That’s totally fine.

    Andrea: When you asked, I was like, ‘oh!’ I just panicked. I was like, do I have a presence? I do because I’m the Director of this program, I have a presence to be online for that. I do have different sort of pages that I manage. So different hats that I put on. I post more of the artsy personal stuff on my own page. That’s me. But it also, part of me is that community aspect. And then I have some program specific pages where, it’s maybe a little more professional or like posting, sharing work by the authors, in this collection sharing student work. As much as I know if people tell me about it, but it’s fine.

    Jennifer: That’s always part of the process.

    Andrea: Yeah. I don’t wanna… I try not to spend a lot of time scrolling on social media.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Andrea: But yeah, I guess I like, the part of it that I do like is it does connect so many aspects of my world over the years that otherwise would have, many of them I think would have, disappeared from my life entirely. Like friendships in high school, things like that. And it is really nice to sort of just see what people are up to. Even if I’m somebody that I was best friends with when I was 16 or something just to see, get a glimpse of their life.

    Jennifer: I saw a childhood friend of mine who I haven’t talked to in, oh my gosh, a couple decades maybe, just had a child. And I was so touched for her, like we don’t talk, but it still felt meaningful to me. So you don’t like social media and you have actually a strong online presence compared to a lot of faculty members because you’re wanting to be part of that community and wanting to bring together communities as well. That’s really interesting.

    Andrea: Yeah, I always think if I didn’t have this job, I would leave Facebook, but I’m still there.

    Jennifer: Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. You’re still there. That’s true. Well, you gotta have somewhere to share your masks.

    Andrea: That’s right. Yeah. I might keep it just to share the masks. I say I would leave, but I probably just share weirder things.

    Jennifer: Right, a little bit leaning more into your personality. Exactly.

    Andrea: Yeah. Yep.

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    Where to start, writing and social justice

    Jennifer: Now academics who I’d say don’t consider themselves writers are listening to this, and I want them to go out and buy your book. I’m also curious, like if they are interested in leaning into more social justice lenses or social justice audiences, even for their writing. Is there somewhere you recommend they start? Maybe if this is their first time leaning into that area? I’d say they’re academics who maybe don’t consider themselves writers, even though they do quite a bit of writing.

    Andrea: Well, there’s lots of amazing literary conferences of all sizes and topics and themes. There’s a couple of things that I would note. Like in Denver, there’s a really great conference that The Word Storytelling, A Sanctuary runs. They have a conference called Margins. And so it’s an audience primarily of people of color who are writers. Talking about all types of different things. Some of that overlaps social justice. And I think that idea, radical imagination too, is this sort of holding equally everybody’s voice and making space for everybody’s voice to be heard. And maybe even making more space for the voices that are typically more marginalized. So that place would be a good place to start. There’s also a website called Writing the Other that is for writers and thinking about the publishing industry and how to, thinking about representation, appropriation, those kinds of issues, and how to navigate those as writers which I think also relates writers, academics, social justice, kind of entwines with all of those things. And then looking at this anthology has so many amazing authors in it. You can read any of them. Read interviews by them. They’re on podcasts. They’re doing online interviews. They have amazing things to say creatively, critically, academically. So there’s 20 people right there who have your back and can, who are also really open and friendly and up for answering questions. I shouldn’t speak for all of them, but reach out, see if they’re willing to engage. They definitely do a lot of them do classroom visits. They are used to sort of doing interviews and podcasts and things like that too.

    Jennifer: Oh, that is so cool. I want everyone to go out and get your copy of We Can See Into Another Place. This is an important anthology, especially for academics like you. Oh, it made big difference when I read it, and I hope it does for you as well. Andrea, is there anything else that you’d like to touch on, talk about before we wrap up today?

    Andrea: I think we got everything. Thank you so much for having me. It was really lovely to see you again and have this conversation with you.

    Jennifer: Oh, I’m so excited to share your book with everyone and to feature you on The Social Academic. Thank you so much.

    Andrea: Thank you.

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    Bio for Andrea Rexilius

    Dr. Andrea Rexilius is the author of Sister Urn (Sidebrow, 2019), New Organism: Essais (Letter Machine, 2014), Half of What They Carried Flew Away (Letter Machine, 2012), and To Be Human Is To Be A Conversation (Rescue Press, 2011), as well as the chapbooks, Séance (Coconut Books, 2014), To Be Human (Horseless Press, 2010), and Afterworld (above/ground press, 2020).

    She earned an MFA in Poetry from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (2005), and a PhD in Literature & Creative Writing from the University of Denver (2010). Andrea is the program director for Regis University’s Mile-High MFA in Creative Writing. She also teaches in the Poetry Collective at Lighthouse Writers Workshop in Denver, Colorado.

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  • Writing Assignments in the Age of AI – Sovorel

    Writing Assignments in the Age of AI – Sovorel

    I put this infographic together to help many instructors that are struggling with this issue as they teach and are trying to keep students from using AI when they are not supposed to. Be sure to take every opportunity to help students learn about AI Literacy when you can, even when telling them that for this assignment/eval they won’t be able to use it.

    You as the instructor are the subject matter expert and must be the one deciding how AI will be used in your classroom and for your assignments/evaluations. For some assignments, the use of AI may not be the right answer in that you are trying to help them develop skills mastery, so they can properly gain the skill of what “right” looks like. Be sure to fully explain that to them so that they have full relevancy and understanding as to why they can or can not use AI.

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  • Writing Your Book for Minoritized Women Academics with Jane Jones, PhD

    Writing Your Book for Minoritized Women Academics with Jane Jones, PhD

    When you write a book, it’s lasting. It’s sharable. Your book is findable online which for professors that means you can help more people with your research, teaching, and the things you care about most. I’m delighted to share this featured interview with you.

    Dr. Jane Joann Jones is a book coach for minoritized women professors. She left the tenure track 8 years ago to help you confidently write your book.

    Jane says, “You’ve done this research. It’s really meaningful to you. And you wanna see it out in the world.” If you want a book, I want you to have a book! I hope this interview resonates with you.

    Welcome to The Social Academic blog and podcast. We’re also on YouTube! I’m Jennifer van Alstyne (@HigherEdPR). Here we talk about managing your online presence as a professor. You can build skills to have a strong digital footprint to share your research and teaching online. And I’m here to help you.

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    In this interview, Dr. Jane Jones and I talk about

    Meet Dr. Jane Jones

    Jennifer: Welcome to The Social Academic. Today I’m talking with Dr. Jane Jones of Up In Consulting.

    We’re gonna be talking about books. So, authors, please listen up. This one is for you. Dr. Jane Jones, would you please introduce yourself?

    Jane: Sure. My name is Jane Jones. I am a New Yorker and I am a book writing coach. I came to book writing after I left my tenure track job. I was an Assistant Professor of Sociology. That’s where I have my PhD, in sociology.

    I started out as a developmental editor and then transitioned into coaching. The business I have now is a book coaching business where I work with women in academia who are writing books in humanities and social sciences. I help them get those books done through a combination of developmental editing, coaching, and project management support.

    Jennifer: I love that. Now, can I ask, what do you like most about coaching? Why do you like working with people on their books?

    Jane: Oh my goodness, there are a lot of reasons actually. I really do love coaching.

    One thing that stands out with the coaching side is how much academics already know, but have been socialized to believe they don’t know. Especially women.

    Jennifer: Ooh. Especially women. Okay.

    Jane: Especially women. Especially Black women, other women of color, They’ve been taught not to trust their own knowledge.

    Jennifer: Mm.

    Jane: And through coaching, a lot of what I focus on, is helping people realize that you already know a lot about your topic. You already have a lot of expertise. You don’t always have to defer to other scholars, to your dissertation advisor, especially when you’re writing your book. You no longer have to answer to your dissertation advisor. And that you have a lot of the skills already.

    To be sure, there are a lot of things that we aren’t taught about publishing. There is a big hidden curriculum around book writing. And exposing that hidden curriculum is very important, while also reinforcing people’s trust in their own knowledge. Being able to do both of those two things at the same time, I think is the most important part of the coaching relationship for me.

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    What are universities not teaching you about book writing?

    A close up of a university library bookcase with many leather bound books.

    Jennifer: I love that because my next question was what are universities kind of not teaching you, right? What are universities not teaching, especially minoritized faculty, about writing books?

    It sounds like people do have more knowledge than they’re able to process, maybe admit, or accept of themselves. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Where is that difference between how much we know and how much we really need support?

    Jane: I always joke that there’s no Publishing 101. There’s no Book Writing 101.That course is not taught in grad school. I mean, for that matter, Article Writing 101 isn’t either. Those aren’t taught in grad school.

    Where people have a lot of knowledge is in their subject matter. In the data you have collected, all of the literature, you’ve read, how you make sense of the literature. People are experts there. You’ve spent your whole graduate career…Because I work with people at all stages of their career from Assistant Professor to Full Professor. You’ve accumulated so much data, number one. And you have so much knowledge. Right? So that is there.

    But in terms of questions like, “Well, how is a book different than a dissertation?”

    You know, “Structurally, what do I put in my book that wasn’t in the dissertation?”

    Or, you know, “How do I create the through line in my book?”

    You know, these really, kind of tactical questions about how do I actually do the writing of this type of manuscript? Which is different than an article, and is different than a grant proposal. They’ve never been taught that.

    Even though they have all of the information, they don’t know how to get it on paper in a way that is going to be legible for our reader. That’s where the work happens. That’s what we do, and that’s what universities don’t teach people how to do.

    Sometimes it’s because people just don’t know how to teach it. It’s kind of like, you write your book for yourself. For many people who write their first book, and if you’re a first book author watching this, if someone comes and asks you what you did, you might be like, “I don’t remember. I just got that done. I was on a tenure timeline, and I put my head down, and I wrote.” And maybe I had a book manuscript workshop. Or, you know, like, I had good friends, or a supportive mentor who read it and gave me feedback. And I wrote, got feedback, wrote, got feedback, and that was it. And then the book was done, right? That doesn’t mean you can then teach that process to somebody else.

    So being able to be a little bit on the outside of the process as developmental editor, and with the other developmental editors, you know, who work in the program with me, being on the outside of that process and saying, you know, there are some common things. There are some things that all books have in common. And we’re gonna teach you how to implement and how to learn that craft, the things that are common about the craft of book writing.

    We work with people across disciplines. We’re ‘discipline agnostic’ as we like to say. You know, from art historians to people who are more on the side of doing quantitative, big survey research, but writing books. We run the gamut. But even within that, there are things people have in common in their books and in their trials of writing, you know? The experiences they’re having, trying to make enough time to write the book, feeling imposter syndrome, not knowing what to do with feedback, being worried about approaching an acquisitions editor. You know, going back to the hidden curriculum, not knowing how to talk to an acquisitions editor and feeling very intimidated. Those are all things that we help them with that I think aren’t really being talked to them in other places.

    People might be exchanging information informally. They’re like, “Oh, my friend published here. They said the editor is really nice.” Or, “They said the editor is really hands-on or not hands-on. So I have this informal knowledge, but I don’t know how to craft an email to an acquisitions editor. Or, strike up a conversation with them at a conference. And I feel very worried to do that.” You know, “I don’t know how to describe my book in one or two sentences so that I could talk to somebody about it at a conference and not spend 10 minutes talking about my book. Which, ultimately I will be, but I don’t have that sharp, quick summary.” Those are things that we help them with, because it could feel very disempowering when you don’t know how to do that.

    Again, you have all this great information, but, if you don’t know how to talk to an acquisitions editor, how are you gonna have a book? If you don’t know how to craft a chapter, how are you gonna have a book.

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    Minoritized women in the academy do more service and mentoring

    A black woman sits on a plush orange rug leaning against a tan sofa. She is typing on her laptop which rests on her knee which is bent under her.

    Jennifer: These are skills that professors can learn. These are skills that are learnable and that you can develop, but because they’re not taught by universities and the people who have experience in them maybe don’t know how to teach these skills, it is amazing that you and your team are there to support them. I’m so happy about that.

    And I’m also happy that you work with minoritized faculty, with women. Why is that important to you?

    Jane: It’s really important! I just want to go back to one thing, the people who have written books and don’t necessarily know how to teach it. I would add additionally, and kind of looping this into working with women and minoritized faculty is, like, they don’t often have the time to teach somebody elsehow to write a book.

    It’s a time consuming process. A book is a multi-year process and people add mentoring like, “I’ll read a chapter for you and give you feedback.” But for someone to give them that structured support over time, faculty are having to publish themselves. They have to do their own service committees, they have their own families. Again, that doesn’t mean that they don’t offer help, but it means that they may not have the time or capacity to give that systematic type of help we do.

    I think that’s especially pronounced for women and minoritized faculty because they often have an extra service load. They do more service. We know that statistically. They do more service. They’re doing more care-taking outside of work. Right?

    There isn’t always that easy transmission of knowledge from a senior faculty member to a junior faculty member because they’re just as pressed as anybody else. And so are the junior faculty! And we don’t only work with junior faculty, but the majority of our clients are.

    They have the same issues like extra service, students who want their mentorship because they’re the only Black person in the department. They’re only person who studies race. They’re the only person who does X research. So they have students who want their mentoring. And all of this creates extra commitments for them.

    One thing that we focus on in coaching is helping people prioritize their books when there’s a lot of other things going on. Teaching that craft of writing, but also saying, like, “Hey, this book is really important to you for a lot of reasons. Like, professionally take a tenure promotion. But also because you’ve done this research, it’s really meaningful to you, and you wanna see it out in the world. How do we help you make sure that it stays top of mind?” What do we do to support people so that the book can stay top of mind.

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    Have more conversations about your book

    Two black women sit on a gray sofa in on office. They are looking at a laptop and smiling.

    Jennifer: I love that. I feel like my work is really aligned with that actually, because I’m really helping professors and researchers talk about the research and the teaching that they do on online. That way more people can have conversations, so that they can have more collaboration, so that they can get more research funding.

    But most of the people that I work with have a lot of anxiety talking about themselves. Do you find that your authors have anxiety talking about their books?

    Jane: Yeah. (laughs) Yeah. Definitely. And I think that the work you’re doing is so important, ’cause, in my opinion, if you write a book, don’t you want people to read it?

    Like, you want it out in the world. Like, you wanna be in conversation with other people. You want people to read it, but you also want to talk to people about it.

    Jennifer: Right, yeah. Yeah. Even, the ability to have someone on your team, be that kind of support, not just when you start writing the book, but through the whole process. That’s such an amazing idea that we can’t necessarily get through a mentorship position at your university. Especially if no one is in your field. I love that that support system is there.

    It also gives authors an opportunity to have someone that they can talk with about their book. Some of the authors that I work with, I ask, “Who do you talk about your book with?”

    And their answer is, “No one. Once I stopped working with my editor, I don’t talk with my colleagues. I don’t talk with my family. I don’t talk with my friends. My book came out seven years ago and I never talk about it.”

    That really strikes me as something that I think that, people who work with you, they’re talking about their book. And thinking about it in much larger ways. Because it’s really introspective, and being introspective is hard. I love that you help people with that process and actually understand their motivations for why they’re doing it, who they’re helping. It’s amazing.

    Jane: Yeah. Thank you. I think that another part that’s really important is that my programs are group programs.

    Jennifer: Ooh.

    Jane: And that’s on purpose. Because like you said, it is very introspective. For some people, the solitude, the solitary work, they like it. They’re like, “I like writing solitary. I like being alone with my thoughts.” And that’s great.

    Some people are like, “It’s isolating, and I don’t like it, and I feel very alone in the process.” Being with people who are at a similar stage as them, and when I say stage, I don’t mean career-wise, I mean stage of the book. Because people come in, and they’re all at a similar stage of writing, so they’re all kind of going through it together.

    “I’m trying to figure out the overarching argument of this book,” or, “I’m writing two of my empirical chapters, the two of my body chapters.” There’s a feeling of, “We’re in it together.”

    I spoke to a former client the other day, and she was in Elevate a year ago maybe, and she said, “Our Elevate group still meets on Mondays and Thursdays on Zoom, and we still write together.”

    Jennifer: I love that.

    Jane: I was like, “Oh, my goodness.” I didn’t even know that they did that. And she’s like, “We kept the time and whoever can make it comes on Mondays and Thursdays and we meet.” Just having that community of people who are in it with you and are like, “I’ve seen you from when you started this book and you weren’t sure what it was about. And now you’re here and we’re just seeing each other’s process and giving each other support that way.”

    It’s just awesome because we don’t get a lot of that in academia. We have to be very intentional about cultivating it. It doesn’t just show up for us.

    Being able to provide that space where you have peers so you can be like, “I tried that too, and this is what happened when I tried it. “You know, or, “I went through that experience and I came out and I was, like, ‘I did it, and you could do it too.’”

    Jennifer: I did it and you can do it too. Just hearing those two sentences, they’re so short. But, it just makes such a difference, especially to the women and minoritized faculty that you most want to help.

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    Anxieties about writing your book are normal

    An open book with a yellow background

    Jane: Yeah. I mean just seeing that. ‘Cause you get into it and you’re like, “I don’t know if I’m ever gonna be done with this book.” (Jane laughs). People definitely have that thought,

    • “I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to finish this.”
    • “I’ve been avoiding it.”
    • “I haven’t been working on my book, because I’ve been scared.”
    • “I got some feedback that put me into a tailspin.”
    • “I became overwhelmed with other commitments and I feel some shame about it.
    • “I feel so embarrassed.”

    Jennifer: Hmm.

    Jane: And reminding them that it happens. It’s disappointing that it happens, but it doesn’t mean something’s wrong with you. I was normalizing it and seeing when I did one-on-one, one thing that always happened was people would tell me something, I’d be like, “Oh, that’s really common.”

    And they’d be like, “It is?”

    And I’d be like, “Yeah, I have other clients who have experienced that.”

    And they’re like, “They have?”

    Jennifer: (Laughs). Yeah

    Jane: So being able to put everyone in the group and be like, “Look, you’re all having this experience.” You are not uniquely incompetent in some way. This is something that happens to a lot of people. Just because we aren’t talking about it on Twitter, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    Jennifer: You know, I like when it is talked about on Twitter. I like when people talk about their struggles with writing on Twitter. Because I cheer them on. I’m like, “If you struggle with your writing, you get back to it, even if it’s a year later, two years later, 10 years later, I don’t care. Because I will remember that you were vulnerable and open about something you were going through. And I wanna cheer you on and I wanna hear about things when they’re not so good too.” So I really like vulnerability.

    I love that people have a safe space to do that in your program. But I also encourage people, if you’re struggling with something, being open about it on social media can help spark new ideas, tools, and resources that you can use. But also new collaborations and ideas that could help spurn your research in another way. I mean, there’s just so much possibility besides hearing from other people, “Yes. I went through that too.” So yeah, I like that idea of being open about it.

    Jane: Yeah, to be open about it! You know, it’s interesting. We gravitate to what is other people’s achievements and our failures, right? So, you finish a chapter and you’re like, “Yeah, but it’s not as good as I thought it would be.” Or, “Yeah, but it took me two months longer than I thought it would.” There’s always a diminishing.

    Jennifer: Mm.

    Jane: And convert on the flip side, they talk about other people who are like, “Well, that person finished their chapter so much faster than I did.” Or, “That person, you know, did this.” And it’s like, well, maybe they did. Maybe you don’t know the whole story. But it’s interesting, in our brains we kind of put everyone else as, “Well, they did it better or faster than I did. And when I did it, it was a mess.” And to coach around that and be like what is the story you are telling about your progress? And, is that story serving you? Because often it’s not. Saying, “I wrote my chapter, but…” And then using some type of diminishing, diminishing it in some way, how is that helping you?

    Jennifer: Hmm.

    Jane: Why would we emphasize that part of the story? What does it accomplish? It doesn’t accomplish anything besides making you feel like crap. It doesn’t accomplish anything. It doesn’t make you write faster. You can’t go back in time.(Jennifer laughs) You can’t go back in time and write the chapter faster.

    Jennifer: Yeah, yeah.

    Jane: So why would we talk about it so much? But we do, because sometimes we’re like, “Well, I don’t wanna seem arrogant.” Or, “It’s because I don’t believe that this is worthy of celebrating because it didn’t happen the exact way I wanted it to.” So where are the opportunities to kind of neutralize some of that language, so that people aren’t…

    Jennifer: But you can find positives in it, right? Like, maybe that extra time gave you opportunity to realize something new. Maybe it was good that you didn’t write it as fast as you thought you might have been able to. There’s so much self-talk that can be negative that can be harmful for ourselves.

    Jane: Yeah, there’s a lot of negative self-talk. Yeah.

    Jennifer: Yeah. – I’ve definitely done that. I’m a creative writer and I’ve totally done that to my own. I didn’t write that fast enough or I didn’t write as much as so-and-so, yeah. It’s never helpful. It’s never helpful.

    Jane: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like our running critic. And sometimes, it’s something my coach always says, “We can’t always get the critic to completely go away. We can put them in the backseat of the car, and be like, ‘You go back there. You’re not driving this car anymore. You’re not even in the back seat, but, like, the third row.’” (Jennifer laughs) You know, “We’re putting you back there. Like, I recognize that I may not be at a point where I can get rid of you, but I’m not going to give you authority over this ride. You don’t have the wheel. You’re back there.”

    Jennifer: Still in the car, right? Can’t kick it out entirely. I mean, sometimes we can’t get control over it.

    Jane: Still in the car. Like, you realize, you’re not wrong for having these thoughts. Like, they’re natural. And we’ve also been socialized to believe it’s not rigorous enough. It’s not fast enough. Publish or perish. There’s a lot of socialization at hand that is part of the reason why people have these thoughts.

    As a coach it would be irresponsible for me to go in and just be like, “Oh no, you shouldn’t think any of this ever again.” Because as a sociologist, I know how strong the socialization is. As a coach I know that just makes you feel bad about having the thought. Then you feel bad because you didn’t write fast enough according to your standard. Then you feel bad that you’re judging yourself. And then you just feel doubly bad. So it’s like, “Okay, let’s just, like, take it back.”

    Jennifer: Get out of that spiral.

    Jane: Yeah. Let’s get out of the spiral. And, it’s okay that you had that thought. It’s okay that you feel bad. We don’t want you to feel bad indefinitely.

    Jennifer: Hmm. I like that. We don’t want you to feel bad indefinitely.

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    Elevate, a group editing and coaching program

    A graphic that has a photo of Dr. Jane Jones, a black woman, with a cup of coffee sitting on her sofa, looking at the camera. She is wearing a paisley dress and glasses. Also on the graphic is an icon of a book, and the Up In Consulting logo, Jane's business.

    Jennifer: Tell me more about Elevate. Who should join?

    Jane: Everyone. I’m just kidding. (Jane and Jennifer laugh).

    Jennifer: You said that people in the cohort are all in a similar place writing their book. When is it right to join your program Elevate?

    Jane: Okay, so Elevate is a group editing and coaching program. We have a curriculum that we walk you through the

    • craft of writing a book
    • project management behind writing a book
    • mindset issues behind writing a book.

    So much of what slows us down is our own thoughts. Like, “I’m not ready to write this.” “I don’t know what decision to make.” “So and so said this about my chapter, so I’m going to feel bad about it and just ignore it.” “I’m gonna avoid. I don’t wanna look at the feedback, so I’m just gonna avoid it.”

    Those are the three domains we work in the craft of writing, project management, and mindset. We do that through a curriculum. We have lessons the same way you would in any course. We have editorial feedback, so you submit your writing for feedback twice a month.

    And we have a lot of mindset coaching that I coach people hard, (Jennifer laughs) which I think is what most Elevate alumni would say. Like, “Jane really coaches us. Like, she really pushes us.”

    Jennifer: Right.

    Jane: I push you in a way that not like, “Write your book faster, write your book faster,” but rather, “Let’s get to the bottom of why you’re having these feelings about your book. Let’s get to it and figure it out,” type of coaching.

    Because we’re academics, we’re in our brains so much. When it gets into having emotions, we’re, like, “Oh, no, we’re rational. We can’t really think about that.”

    I used to be that person too. Oh, no.(Jennifer laughs) I hate that, all that emotion stuff. That’s not gonna work for me. Well, I kind of need to confront it, because you and your book are gonna be together for a very long time.

    Like you were saying, like, as you write it and then after you write it, it’s not going anywhere. You should figure out how to enjoy it. To find pleasure in the process of writing it and be excited about it.

    It’s just like any other thing. You’re not gonna be excited about your book 24 hours a day, but you wanna get to a point where you’re more excited and motivated than you are demoralized and stressed.

    Jennifer: Hmm, mm-hm.

    Jane: In the program, we go 24 weeks. We go through those three themes one by one. People who join, all women, they’re normally at a stage in their book where they are figuring out the big overarching picture of the book and the structure of the book.

    Some people come in and they haven’t written a lot yet. They have all of their data collected, most of their literature read. You might need to go back and collect a little bit more data, but, we want you to really be past that stage. Some people come in and they haven’t written a lot.

    Some people come in and they’ve written a lot and they’re just like, “I’ve been writing and writing, but I still don’t have a really clear through line,” or, “I still don’t know my argument.” And that’s fine, because people’s processes are different. Some people like to get a lot of words on paper and then go back and kind of orient themselves.

    We advocate you creating the foundation first and then building your house. (Jennifer laughs) So people normally come in when they want that support. What we do first is teach people how to write your book overview, how to write your book’s framework and then create an outline for the entire book. And then they start writing chapters.

    Normally within the program you can come out with a couple of chapter drafts if you have the time to commit, and you will know what your book is about, how you’re going to write it. You know how it’s going to unfold over time. And then you get to work.

    Jennifer: You have a plan in place. You have the mindset that you need to make that plan actually done, like, to get your book done. I love that.

    Jane: Yeah, yeah.

    Jennifer: Oh, if people want more support, you help them with that too. Like, beyond writing their book, is that correct?

    Jane: We focus on books, but we have an alumni program for Elevate. We don’t expect anyone to write a book in six months. (Jennifer and Jane laugh). That is not what we do. We do not make pie in the sky promises.

    We have an alumni program and people often come back and do the alumni program, which is another six months. There we really focus on more now you’ve done a lot of the deep work, the deep thinking in Elevate. Now we are helping you get a lot of words on paper. People are doing the writing and getting the body chapters, I call them ‘the empirical chapters.’ But I know people also have ‘theory chapters,’ so I don’t want anyone to be like, “What about the theory chapter?”

    We focus on getting chapters done or revising because some people will take Elevate, go off for a little while and work independently, and then come back and be like, “I have a couple of chapters done.” And we’re like, “Great, let’s start revising them.”

    Jennifer: I’m glad I asked you about that because I felt like there might be some people who are like, “Oh, I need a little bit more help than that. Is there an option?” I’m glad that there’s an alumni program that supports you with continuing that process. That’s amazing.

    What else should people know or consider about Elevate? Because your new cohort is opening up again soon.

    Jane: Yeah, so we accept people who are writing first, second, third books. I think initially when we ran the program, it was very much for people who were transforming dissertations into books. And we have gotten a substantial number of people who are writing second books, which are a different challenge because you don’t have that scaffolding of the dissertation. Even if your first book is dramatically different from the dissertation, which many are, the book is not a revised dissertation. It is like a caterpillar to butterfly.

    But the second book just poses different challenges, and we support people who are writing their second book, their third book, because that foundational work of creating the overview, the framework, the outline, you need to do that every time. It’s not like you write the first book and you’re like, “Well I’m an expert on book writing now, so I don’t need any help.” That’s not how it works. (Jennifer laughs). And even experts get support.

    So it’s not a matter that it’s a remedial type of program. That’s not what it is. It’s not, for, “Oh the people who don’t know how to write books.” No, it’s for people who wanna write books with supportive community, expert editorial feedback and coaching to help them write the book with less stress, a better support system, a clear foundation for the book. So that they can make progress with more ease.

    Writing a book is a complicated thing. It should be because you’re dealing with complicated ideas and all sorts of interesting data. And it’s not easy. But there can be more clarity and momentum in the process than what there currently is for a lot of people.

    Jennifer: I think that this is such a wonderful gift that you can give to yourself, especially if this is, like, your second, third, or fourth book. Like, why not make this time easier and better?

    Jane: The majority of the people who work with us pay through their universities. We have a significant number of people, and some people pay out of pocket. We have people who are like, “I wanna make this investment because my book’s important to me and I don’t wanna twiddle my thumbs…”

    Jennifer: (Laughs). Good. So if you are listening to this, if you’re watching us on YouTube or reading the blog, know that this is a program that’s there to support you and that you can pay for it out of pocket or you can request funds from your university. I hope that you sign up for the wait list.

    Jane: You can apply for Elevate. The application is just an application. It’s not a commitment to join the program. We look at your application, because one thing about the program is that we wanna make sure that you’re a good fit for the program.

    We also wanna make sure the program’s a good fit for you. If we think that you’re not at the right stage, if there’s something about your research that we feel that we can’t support you…For instance, we had someone who’s writing a memoir and we’re like, “We don’t really edit a lot of memoirs.” If we feel like the program is not a good fit for you, we will tell you because we only want people in it who can commit and who we can help.

    That is the point of going in and applying and possibly talking to me about the process if you have a lot of questions, that we wanna make sure that it works for everyone. Because it’s a big commitment. And also, a book is a big deal. If you’re gonna get support, you wanna make sure you’re getting the right support at the right time.

    Instagram Live about finding your book audience on social media

    Jennifer: I love that. Thank you so much for joining me for this interview, and for everyone listening, I do wanna let you know that Jane and I did an Instagram Live where we talked about your book audience versus platform.

    Screenshot of Instagram live with Jennifer van Alstyne and Jane Jones. The description for this replay reads, "How to spread word about your book and attract readers. Jennifer van Alstyne of @HigherEdPR joined me for a fabulous conversation about promoting your book. If you're a book author who wants people to read your book, you won't want to miss this presentation!"

    Thank you so much for watching this episode of The Social Academic! And thank you so much, Dr. Jane Jones, for joining me.

    Jane: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

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    Bio for Dr. Jane Jones

    A graphic for featured interview on The Social Academic. Blue background with white text reads that the interview is with Jane Jones, PhD of Up In Consulting. There is an icon of headphones on a microphone to represent podcasting. A cutout photo of Jane, a black woman, is on the graphic. She is wearing a bright pink lace blazer over a light pink top, hoop earrings, and glasses. Jane is smiling and looking at the camera.

    Jane Joann Jones is an academic book coach who helps minoritized scholars get the feedback & support they need to confidently write their books. Jane strives to be the coach she wished for when she was on the tenure track.

    In her eight years as an editor and coach, Jane has successfully helped dozens of academic authors create and execute a writing plan and ultimately write their books, confidently. Her clients have published with presses including Oxford, Princeton, Bloomsbury, University of Chicago, Stanford, Duke, and UNC. Through her work, Jane has restored minoritized academics’ faith in their writing abilities and their place in the academic world.

    When she’s not challenging the status quo in academia, you can find Jane sipping a craft bourbon, on the rocks, while experimenting with a new cooking recipe. She also enjoys visiting museums for only one hour, devouring cooking shows, and impromptu dance parties to the tunes of Lizzo and Queen Bey. If you happen to be strolling through her New York neighborhood, you might see her at Lucille’s, her local café, drinking an oat milk latté with a raspberry donut and a good book.

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    Introducing a short guide entitled: “Writing Good Learning Outcomes and Objectives”, aimed at enhancing the learner experience through effective course design. Available at https://amazon.com/dp/0473657929

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    #ad #education #highereducation #learningdesign #coursedesign #learningoutcomes #instructionaldesign


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    Academic Writing and Finding Community Online with Dr. Lisa Munro

    Ready to kickstart your next academic journal article?

    Dr. Lisa Munro joins me to talk about academic writing. Did you know there’s a writing community online waiting for you? Social media isn’t just for sharing your article once it’s published. Share more of the writing process. Find support to get your writing done. And, meet collaborators online.

    Lisa is a historian who leads workshops and writing retreats for academics. Journal article writing doesn’t come naturally to many people. You may feel like you don’t know what you’re doing. People can feel a lot of shame about their writing.

    Lisa says, “Academic publishing is like a secret club with weird archaic rules that no one tells you about.” Now she helps people get their journal article written to make progress on their publication goals.

    In this featured interview, we talk about finding your writing community online. And, her upcoming journal article writing workshop based on Wendy Belcher’s Writing Your Journal Article in Twelve Weeks. Psst! Sign up for the workshop before registration closes on September 6, 2022.

    We also discuss adoption, a topic Lisa has been talking about on Twitter for years. Adoption is political. And it’s more complicated than people think. Both Lisa and I are adoptees. Talking about the things you’re interested in, what you’re passionate about, is an effective way to find your audience on social media.

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    Meet Lisa

    Jennifer: Hi everyone, this is Jennifer van Alstyne, and welcome back to The Social Academic featured interview series. Today, I’m talking with Dr. Lisa Munro. We’re gonna be talking about writing and community online.

    Lisa, would you please introduce yourself for everyone?

    Lisa: Hello. I’m so excited to be here and thanks so much for inviting me to do this.

    I’m Lisa Munro. I am an academic…I’m sort of, well, it’s complicated. You know how Facebook used to have those options? Like it’s complicated.

    It’s still complicated, but I am a historian. I have a PhD from University of Arizona. And now I’m doing writing support for people, for other academics. Frequently, they are not getting that kind of help and support through their institutions. So that’s me.

    Jennifer: Right.

    Lisa: So that has been what I’ve been devoting myself to for the last couple of years.

    Before that I was directing study abroad programs and I’m still working with some short term study abroad programs that come to where I live, my part of the world, which is Mérida, Yucatán of Mexico, so I’m still doing a little bit of that work as well.

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    A private community for academic writers (not on Facebook)

    Jennifer: Well, I’m delighted that you came on to talk with me today about that work that you’re doing with academics who need to write their articles. Because finding that community online is something that I really encourage people to reach out to for social media.

    But I also find that when they’re ready to, they’re like, “Oh yeah, I wanna join Twitter to share my publications.” And I always encourage people to talk about more of that process, to talk about more of the writing process.

    And one of the reasons that I really wanted to have you on is because you have a writing community where people are connected online and they’re talking and conversing and cheering each other on. I would love to hear more about your writing community.

    Lisa: Yeah. I was doing editing for a while and editing is very solitary. It’s kind of you and somebody’s work and there’s not a whole lot of community engagement there.

    But I started shifting towards more towards how do people get writing done? I found that that was really where people needed help.

    What I had originally envisioned in my dreams was I thought I would be like giving people advice about like the passive voice and like how to use better verbs. I thought I would be doing that kind of work.

    And as it turns out, what people really needed, they needed to feel better about themselves as writers. And as people. That’s what they really needed to do their best work. Frequently, when they didn’t feel very good about themselves as writers and as people, their writing output, their productivity, absolutely ground to a halt.

    Jennifer: Hmm.

    Lisa: And so when people stop writing, frequently what happens is they start getting caught in these cycles of shame and fear. It’s very hard to get going again because the less you write, the more shame you have about the fact that you’re not writing.

    And then you feel horrible and guilty. And then you have a lot of fear about starting writing again. So you don’t do writing. So now you’re just like circling back and forth and back and forth. It’s a really crappy cycle.

    People feel a lot of shame around that. And when they start feeling a lot of shame around that, the first thing that usually goes, is they stop talking to people about that struggle.

    It’s like, who do you really talk to in your life about your writing struggles? Frequently, people have partners who might not be academics, so maybe they don’t understand. But maybe, you know, your colleagues have their own writing struggles, you know, are they gonna listen to yours? Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. It’s like, there’s very precious few spaces where people can really talk about their writing struggles. And dealing with issues of shame and issues of fear and how those things have impacted the writing processes.

    And so, my thing is, well, let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about your shame around writing. And let’s talk about my shame around writing. And together, like, it’s kind of okay.

    Like if I’m experiencing what you’re experiencing and we can kind of see each other, maybe we’re in different boats, but we can see each other. All of a sudden, like people feel less alone.

    Oh, you’re struggling too. I’m struggling. Wow. Like, it seems like this is a common thing. And people start feeling less alone. People start talking more about their experience. And it helps people to get going.

    I’m very interested in creating those kinds of spaces where people can talk about their writing. Where they can get out of these shame and fear cycles. And they can start working towards what I would consider sustainable and joyful writing practices.

    Join Lisa Munro’s writing community.

    Concerns about Facebook

    Two women stand on a raised sidewalk wearing booties, pants, jackets, and sunglasses. They are both looking up towards dozens of video surveillance cameras on the brick wall above them. The cameras all point down making it feel hyper-surveilled.

    Jennifer: Thank you for sharing that. It sounds like you really wanted to create a kind of safe space where that conversation could be open.

    Now, why did you choose to have a private community and not put it on like, Facebook, which is what a lot of people choose?

    Lisa: Oh my god, I have complicated feelings about Facebook too.

    Jennifer: Good.

    Lisa: I don’t love Facebook. I think they’re kind of a terrible company. I don’t trust them at all. I feel like social media has been so… Well, I’m not gonna derail…

    Jennifer: Don’t, just say it, say it.

    Lisa: …this conversation. But social media has been so instrumental in becoming toxic soup.

    Jennifer: Mm.

    Lisa: I mean, there’s so much toxicity on social media right now. There is so much disinformation, misinformation.

    Jennifer: Yes.

    Lisa: And then Facebook has not been a good corporate citizen. Their whole business model is based on selling your data and I really felt uncomfortable with that. That is not what I wanted to do. That doesn’t feel safe to me. That doesn’t feel like a safe space.

    I’m in some Facebook groups still. I haven’t quite deleted [Facebook] yet for like the two people I know who just won’t be on any other platform. And I love those people, I really do. But ah, get a different platform.

    Even in the Facebook groups I’m in, I always feel like people are watching you, people are spying. And it’s like, is this really private? We’re not, “Oh, crap, my privacy settings were wrong and now it’s all over the internet.” You know, it doesn’t feel safe.

    There’s been some recent stories in the news about Facebook selling some very personal information about its users. I think that’s awful.

    Jennifer: Facebook has shared some very personal information, including direct messages, like what people think of as private conversations with legal authorities.

    Lisa: Yes.

    Jennifer: That’s really important to be aware of. If you’re on Facebook, thinking about your privacy and how your comfort level is with that, is super important.

    Lisa: Yes. Absolutely.

    Jennifer: So I am glad you brought that up, Lisa.

    Lisa: Okay, good.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: I was hoping that wasn’t like a total, like, total derailment…

    Jennifer: No, no, no.

    Lisa: Because I think it’s different, like Twitter, right? Anything you put out there is public, and you know that.

    Jennifer: Right.

    Lisa: You’re like, okay, I’m gonna put this out to the world. Everybody and their dog can see it. And you know that.

    And so like that really, I think, conditions like what you share. Some people are out there pouring their heart out, but most people feel like Facebook is maybe the place to do that because people have these ideas that that is a private space. And it’s not.

    Jennifer: That’s right.

    Lisa: I have bad feelings about Facebook. So, I decided I didn’t wanna do that. And also advertising which is a part of selling your data. I mean, it’s like you start looking for vacuum cleaners on Amazon and then all of a sudden, like all these vacuum cleaners are in your Facebook feed. And you’re like, wait, what? What just happened there? Oh, right, that works so fast.

    Jennifer: It does.

    Lisa: Yeah, I mean, tremendous.

    I wanted to create a safe space and be like, okay, like look, I don’t want advertising, I want it to be people connecting to people. And without fear that Facebook is going to sell their data.

    So I ended up on Mighty Networks. That was the platform I chose to do that. And I’ve been really satisfied with that.

    There is no advertising. Why? Because I pay for it like a normal consumer. Right? Like that’s how that’s supposed to work. This whole freemium model that we’ve all gotten used to…I hear, “Okay, I’ll let you sell my data if I get to use your products.” I much prefer sort of traditional consumer models where I pay you money and you sell me a service. I feel like that’s just a better way for these things to work.

    So I created a Mighty Networks. And it’s still going. I feel like I did that in 2019 so it’s been going on for almost three years now.

    Jennifer: Yeah, that’s a long time.

    Lisa: Something like that, yeah. That’s a long time and people come and go. Engagement goes up, engagement goes down.

    Like right now people are super burned out. You know I get that. I think eventually engagement’s gonna pick back up again because these things are cyclical. So that’s what I’m doing.

    It’s really all about like daily account, for me, it’s about daily accountability because I think it’s important to provide a space for people to check in. What’d you do today? What writing did you do today?

    And the only rule is that you can’t talk about the writing that you didn’t do. That you meant to do and didn’t, because that, you know, now you’re back in shame and fear cycles.

    Jennifer: Right.

    Lisa: That doesn’t help, but talk about what you did do. “Oh my god, I wrote a sentence today.” Fantastic. Like if that’s your writing win, like I am here for that, and I am gonna cheer you on. Wonderful.

    You published your book? Fabulous. Likewise, I am here for that. I am gonna cheer you on.

    Whatever your accomplishment is, I wanna hear about it.

    The more we talk about what feels good in writing, what we have achieved, what we have done, we start getting away from these models of like,

    • “Oh my god, you know, have I written enough?”
    • “Am I enough?”
    • “Is this enough?”
    • “Am I good enough?”

    We start getting away from those kind of shame based models and closer to writing that does feel good.

    When writing feels good, you’re apt to do more of it. Because you’re enjoying the process of doing that. So that’s really my revolution.

    Join the community.

    Jennifer: So it sounds like the process of talking about writing in that group setting really helps people actually perform the practices that are needed to get the writing done.

    Lisa: Yeah, yeah.

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    Making writing friends and finding collaborators

    Woman wearing blue heathered sweater dips a fountain pen into ink. She is writing the address on an envelope to send in the mail.

    Jennifer: I love that.

    It also sounds like people are able to make these kind of lasting relationships with each other, through the group, through your writing retreats and your other offerings.

    I think that what you said to me one time is that some of your people were so close that they were sending like cards to each other in the mail.

    Lisa: Oh, they totally were.

    It was amazing. I mean, there was like one Christmas where like people were sending Christmas cards to each other and it was like, oh my god, like, look at this!

    Oh, and the other thing that happened recently, two people I’ve worked with in the past who have both been on my writing retreat, who kind of lived close to each other, they got together and had lunch. I mean, it’s fabulous. I love when that kind of connection happens.

    I’ve worked with writers who end up finding mentors. So there’s been some mentoring that have come out of different writing initiatives I’ve done.

    Co-authoring! Unlikely people who are like, “Hey, like it would be really fun to write something with you,” and then they do. That’s amazing.

    Yeah, so there are actual, genuine connections that come out of this. I don’t know if anything is gonna really replace like face to face interactions with people. But in the meantime, now that we’re sort of a geographically dispersed people…You know, people are all over the world looking for community, looking for connection.

    Jennifer: Yes.

    Lisa: It’s the magic of the internet that’s going to bring us together and allow us to do that.

    You can create meaningful relationships online, even with people you don’t really know.

    I open my Twitter in the morning and I’m like, oh, here are all my pocket friends.

    Lisa was an early user of Twitter

    Lisa Munro's Twitter profile @LLMunro. Her bio reads 'PhD, historian, writer, Latin America, returned Peace Corps volunteer (Guatemala, 04-06), adoptee, study abroad & intellectual dilettante. She/her/Dr.' Lisa follows 12k people. She has 18.2k followers.

    Jennifer: That was actually my next question. I’m curious, what does your online presence look like? What’s your favorite social media platform? ‘Cause I’m pretty sure it’s not Facebook.

    Lisa: It’s not Facebook. Yes, it’s not Facebook. My favorite social media platform is Twitter.

    I don’t remember when Twitter started, but I was a fairly early adopter of Twitter.

    Jennifer: Okay.

    Lisa: Just because it seemed to be like what people were doing. And it seemed like edgy and cool at the time. I think that was in 2009.

    Jennifer: Okay. That’s early.

    Lisa: It was early. Nobody was talking about anything really interesting.

    Now people are using it for all kinds of really interesting purposes. It’s just kind of grown and grown.

    My audience has grown. People ask me sometimes about growing a following on Twitter, how do you get followers?

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: And I tell people like, talk about what you care about. Your people will find you. And you’ll find your people. But you have to be willing to talk about what you’re really passionate about, what you’re really interested in.

    I hear people be really dismissive of Twitter, “Oh, it’s all about like what people had on their bagels.”

    I’m like, well, you know, if you’re not interested in people’s bagels, then

    • A, don’t talk about bagels and,
    • B, don’t follow people who talk about bagels.

    It’s okay if those are not your people, those are not your people. But if you’re interested in talking about bigger things…

    If you’re interested in talking about, I don’t know, global politics…

    If you’re interested in talking about social movements…

    If you’re interested in talking about domestic violence…

    If you’re interested in talking about, I mean, just a huge number of topics come out on Twitter.

    And you can follow people who are talking about things you care about. And then you get to contribute to those conversations as well.

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    Talking about adoption on Twitter

    A neon text sign that reads 'hashtag tweet tweet' hangs on a wall covered in bird wallpaper. On the wallpaper, perched parrots look at each other with ferns and other leafy plants.

    Jennifer: You’ve been on Twitter for so long that you’ve really seen that kind of evolution over time. You’ve seen these kind of conversations develop and participated in them yourself.

    You also start conversations about somewhat controversial topics. I know adoption is very important to you, something you talk about on Twitter prolifically, and it’s important to me as well. We are both adoptees and so this is one thing that I wanted to talk with you about today.

    Why do you choose to talk about adoption on Twitter? What kind of responses have you seen to it?

    Lisa: Yeah. Everybody has to have an unpopular opinion, and these are my unpopular opinions.

    I was very interested in talking about that more because I didn’t have people in my immediate circles, like my actual physical circles who were talking about that. It was very isolating.

    There’s something very powerful about finding people who are having those same conversations. When I started feeling like I was this lone person having these thoughts. “Oh my god, like, who else is having these thoughts? Oh, wow. There’s a bunch of people on Twitter having these thoughts.”

    TikTok also is having a moment in terms of adoptees talking about their experiences. I am not a TikTok adopter yet. I feel like I’m too old.

    Jennifer: I don’t think that’s true. But I’m not on TikTok either, so.

    Lisa: I know. People are like, “Oh my god, but the cat videos are really good.” I’m like, okay, well maybe I’ll be there someday. But yeah.

    I talk about adoption a lot because I want people to know that it’s more complicated than people think.

    People oftentimes think about adoption as an unqualified social good. People kind of uncritically think, “Oh, well, you know, it’s kind of a win, win, win for everybody.”

    I want people to know it’s more complicated than that. That there is some real things that we should think about.

    Adoption intersects with everything. Absolutely everything. It intersects with

    • Race
    • Class
    • Gender
    • Disabilities
    • Sexuality
    • Indigenous rights

    It intersects with everything.

    There’s a huge case that’s going up to the Supreme Court about whether the Indian Child Welfare Act should still stand. That law gives tribes the ability to control who adopts their children in response to these massive removals of indigenous children in the 60s and 70s.

    We’ll see like what our kind of reaction there is Supreme Court has to say about that. I’m not super optimistic, but that’s a really big. We should care about those things. And that really gets to the heart of things like tribal sovereignty.

    Also thinking about not just like my own experience as an adopted person…But then also thinking about, there are child removals happening every day in courtrooms all across the nation. They get less press, but they are still happening and they’re happening predominantly to black families. We should care about that.

    Adoption to me like has all of these really big social issues that are embedded in it. I feel like I have a really, I don’t wanna say unique perspective ’cause like there’s nothing particularly unique about my perspective. But that I have something to say about that.

    Jennifer: You have a platform and an audience who’s also curious about learning more about it too.

    I notice that the people who follow you do engage in those conversations and they do engage in the things that you share about it. And oftentimes they’re maybe a little surprised by something, but they’re open to it.

    Introducing that kind of conversation now when it’s become so important, because adoption is being touted as this solution to abortion in the United States, bringing up this conversation on social media, in that public space, it’s like activist work.

    Lisa: Yes.

    Jennifer was adopted from Peru

    The Rainbow Mountains in Cusco, Peru. Photo by McKala Crump.

    Jennifer: I really appreciate it as an adoptee myself. I was adopted from Peru in the 80s, which was before they had regulations. There were over 700 babies adopted from Peru annually. When they put regulations in, that number dropped down to 70 per year. It was a massive difference when governmental agencies do step in and start regulating something. There are lots of issues with adoption.

    Lisa: Absolutely.

    Jennifer: I did not have the most supportive adoptive parents. I will be honest and say that they both each told me separately that they regretted adopting me.

    Lisa: Oh. I’m so sorry.

    Lisa: And they both passed away because they were quite a bit older. They both passed away before I went to college. I struggled a lot.

    It was actually through social media that my birth family from Peru, contacted me again and found me.

    Lisa: Wow.

    Jennifer: They reached out to me and they were like, “We wanna talk to you. We want to be your family.”

    Lisa: Oh, amazing.

    Jennifer: It was lovely. But even that was a little scary for me, it took to getting used to.

    Lisa: Yeah.

    Jennifer: When I was a kid, if you ask me if I regretted being adopted or anything, there’s no way I would say no.

    Lisa: Yes.

    Jennifer: There’s no way I would say anything other than, “I’m so happy to be here.”

    Lisa: Yes.

    Jennifer: But the truth was, it was really hard.

    Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. I said something the other day. It’s really weird that we assume that the way we feel about adoption at like age 8 is the way we’re gonna feel about it our whole lives.

    Jennifer: Right. Yes.

    Lisa: People’s feelings change. For me, when I searched and found birth family my perspective changed radically. I was like, “Oh, wow. Like this thing, this thing that we’re all so excited about, has some really dirty history.”

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: It has some really sad history.

    Jennifer: Yes.

    Lisa: I was a Peace Corps volunteer in 2004 to 2006, and that’s when the Guatemalan Adoption Program was in full swing.

    Massive numbers of children were leaving the country. And so whenever I would go to the airport, it was like, there were 3 Guatemalan babies on my flights with their new white adopted parents. Then every time I came back to Guatemala, I made a couple trips home during my service. Yeah, there were like 3 couples at the gate waiting to go to Guatemala and they had all the baby stuff and no baby. And I was like, oh, I know what you’re doing.

    It was just the scale of it was so shocking. This is a country, and Peru shares some of this history, that had been absolutely torn apart by war and by genocide and all kinds of really terrible things.

    Jennifer: Yes.

    Lisa: And who is going to rebuild that? Children are people’s futures. And here was this massive flood of children out of the country. It was just really, really shocking to me.

    Jennifer: Hmm. Oef.

    That’s why it’s so important to talk about these things online. And I’m really glad that you’re always sharing books and articles where people can learn more.

    I know that I’ve learned more myself from it and it’s helped me kind of process my own thoughts and feelings about adoption.

    Lisa: Yeah.

    Jennifer: I’m in my thirties, like it takes time to sit down and think about these things and kind of go through what we think personally. And then to better understand the cultural, sociological, and all of the implications of it and it lasts for a lifetime.

    Lisa: Yeah. It sure does.

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    Lisa Munro’s future book and the politics of adoption

    Open book. Photo by Aaron Burden.

    Lisa: So that’s gonna eventually be my book. Because everything I talk about on Twitter, that’s eventually gonna be my book.

    Jennifer: Really?

    Lisa: It can’t be my book right now.

    Jennifer: Okay.

    Lisa: But it’s eventually gonna be my book. So yeah, it just really come-

    Jennifer: Well, sign me up to be an early reader because I wanna read that book.

    Lisa: Thank you. I really wanna write that book. You know, people say, “Write what you wanna read.” That’s what I wanna read.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: Yeah.

    Jennifer: Now a lot of the professors that I talk to feel really anxious, or scared, or fear about posting about something online that they know that other people might not react to well.

    I know that there’s got to be some people out there that are super pro-adoption that don’t like what you say. What kind of reaction have you had to that?

    Lisa: Yeah, I get a lot of defensiveness from adoptive parents.

    Part of that I think is because nobody wants to think of themselves as complicit in a system that really hurts children. None of us wanna be a part of that. And yet we’re all kind of implicated in that.

    I often say we’re all part of that because we’re always creating ideas about families, about children. About who gets to have children. Who doesn’t get to have children. Who should have children. Who shouldn’t. And why, and how.

    And so we’re all kind of participating in creating those ideas. It’s not just the idea that adoption somehow just involves like adoptive parents, birth parents, and adoptees. I think is one of the biggest lies out there.

    Jennifer: Right.

    Lisa: We’re all creating those ideas, because ultimately we’re all collaborating whether it’s conscious or not. We’re all collaborating in the idea that some people shouldn’t have children.

    Jennifer: That’s true.

    Lisa: And some people are deserving of other people’s children.

    Oftentimes adoptive parents will push back on me and they will say, you know, “Adoption is just another way to build a family.”

    To which I say, “No, it’s a deeply political decision.”

    Jennifer: Hmm.

    Lisa: I mean, you are making a choice there, that somebody doesn’t get to have their child. Somebody shouldn’t have their child. That’s essentially what that means.

    And that’s an unpopular opinion.

    So I do a lot of muting because people, you know, people get nasty.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: I do a lot of muting. “Okay, you can still follow me and learn, but I’m not going to engage with that, I’m not interested in that.”

    I do a lot of blocking if people are really obnoxious.

    But I hope people keep following and keep thinking. Because a lot of people have told me like, “Wow, I was really kind of resistant to what you said at first. It didn’t make sense to me. I didn’t understand. But you know, I kept engaging with your tweets and kept reading. And I’ve really learned a lot from you.” I’m like, okay, like that seems really great to me.

    The ideal would be when people feel kind of defensive that they would ask genuinely curiously. That they would approach with genuine curiosity and not with sort of ‘gotcha’ agendas or with some really toxic stuff that they’re still carrying around.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: A lot of adoptive parents are dealing with their own traumas.

    Jennifer: Right.

    Lisa: In my circle, we often say, “Adoptions cures childlessness, but it’s not gonna cure infertility.” It’s not the same to have somebody else’s child.

    Jennifer: Right, right.

    Lisa: It’s not the same to raise somebody else’s child.

    That can’t fix that very deep grief when having your own child doesn’t work out for you. And that is very sad.

    Jennifer: Right.

    Lisa: But having somebody else’s child doesn’t fix that either. I think a lot of adopted people feel like they were adopted to fix those problems.

    It never really works for either adoptive parents or adoptees to be emotional airbags.

    Jennifer: Okay. It sounds like you do get negative reactions.

    For most of them, you mute people because you just don’t wanna see that. But they’re welcome to still follow you and engage in your Tweets.

    Lisa: Yup.

    Jennifer: For other people, you do block them because it’s a way to protect yourself and your audience.

    But you do respond to questions. I love that. You do respond to people who are genuinely curious and wanna engage in a conversation.

    Lisa: I do. Yeah. Exactly. Like somebody said to me the other day, “Oh my gosh, but what could be so wrong about giving a child loving home?”

    And I was like, okay, well let’s think about this. Let’s start thinking about this a little bit critically. Like,

    • Who’s relinquishing children?
    • Why are they relinquishing children?
    • Who’s adopting those children?
    • Why are they adopting those children?
    • What’s that process like?
    • What’s supposed to be the ultimate outcome?
    • Who’s benefiting, and who’s not?

    These are sort of basic critical thinking questions I used to teach undergraduates. How to make these same basic critical thinking questions. But somehow adoption has been exempt from critical thinking for a long time.

    Jennifer: I agree.

    Lisa: And I really aim to change that.

    Jennifer: Oh, yay, I’m glad we talked about this. I feel like even though we were here to talk about writing community, talking about the things that you’re interested in, the things that you’re passionate about on Twitter can really make a difference for how connected people feel with you.

    Lisa: Yeah.

    Jennifer: For how long they stay connected with you and for how much they actually share what you’re saying. So I really appreciate that.

    Lisa: Yep.

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    Academic journal article writing workshop starts September 6

    Over-shoulder view of woman in striped shirt holding a tablet. On the tablet is a bio and photo of Dr. Lisa Munro. Behind the tablet on a table is an open book and an open laptop. On the laptop is Lisa's website with a page open that reads 'Let's Kickstart Your Journal Article Together!' for her upcoming academic article writing workshop.

    Jennifer: Now back to article writing for academics, that’s listening to this, right?

    Lisa: Yes.

    Jennifer: I really want them to be able to benefit from help from you, from your groups, from your workshops.

    What do you have coming up that they can get involved in?

    Lisa: I have something great coming up. One of the best things I do is a journal article writing workshop, Kickstart Your Journal Article. I love the metaphor of like kick starting a motorcycle, right?

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: Getting it going.

    Because well one, people are not learning how to do this. I mean, imagine in corporate America, if you had something that was like a major part of your job and yet you received no training in it. That just makes no sense.

    Frequently, for academics, writing is currency, right? Writing is what gets you citations which gets you jobs, which gets you promotions, etc.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: People don’t learn how to write. I don’t remember ever getting explicit writing instruction in graduate school. I don’t remember. I know we had a Writing Center, but I don’t know that anybody…Not to dis on writing center people because they do an absolute tremendous job. But that wasn’t quite the help I needed at the time I think.

    Jennifer: Yeah. You needed a different type of professional development for your writing.

    Lisa: Yep. Yep.

    Jennifer: Not that kind of one-on-one individuated support, but like: how to write.

    Lisa: Yep. Exactly. There’s a lot of grad school that’s like, “Well, you know, you’ll figure it out.” I think that’s a crappy system.

    Jennifer: Yeah.

    Lisa: I don’t think we should be doing things that way. We should be teaching people how to do things, not assuming they’ll figure it out eventually.

    Jennifer: Especially when it’s such a big part of their future career.

    Lisa: A huge part, and yet you’re supposed to just figure it out.

    A lot of novice authors I know, they’ve tried to figure it out on their own. They’ve written articles that aren’t very good. They get rejected. They aren’t sure how to deal with reviewer comments. So then they like trash the whole article. Or never send it out again.

    Jennifer: So there’s issues with the whole process. Not just getting started writing, but when you’re not actually taught how to do the whole process, you can run into problems at every step of the way.

    Lisa: Absolutely. Absolutely. And academia is full of secret handshakes. You have to know how to do the thing. There’s a lot of unspoken rules.

    Jennifer: Right. That’s true.

    Lisa: So, you’re a person who’s like trying to figure out how to write a journal article and you know you need to learn the secret handshake, but you’re not like quite sure what it is. You’re like, does it start like this? Or is it like backwards? Or do we high five first? Like, how do we, what do we do? And no one will tell you.

    I will tell you.

    That’s my other thing is really come and learn how to do this. A lot of people have told me that this is the best professional development thing they’ve ever done.

    Jennifer: Wow.

    Lisa: And not only has it allowed them to write articles…Now like I’ve been doing this long enough now I’m starting to kind of hear back on people’s articles and people are like, “Hey, I got an R&R [Revise & Resubmit],” and, “My article got accepted here.”

    And I’m like, well of course it did ’cause you’re brilliant.

    But that also, what I teach people also trickles down into their teaching. They’re like, “Oh my gosh, you know, you remember that week in which we talked about how to give really good feedback? Well, I used that with my undergraduates and we got fantastic feedback and everybody felt really good about it.” And you’re like, okay, like, fantastic.

    Like we just have to learn to do this a little better. When you don’t know how to give feedback, that’s when you become Reviewer #2. And that doesn’t help anyone.

    I think we can do a lot better. And so I aim to do a lot better.

    So I’m giving a 12 week workshop actually, and there’s a couple other weeks built in there. There’s a break because everybody needs one, and then an introductory session. So it turns out to be 14 weeks, so it’s like a semester.

    We meet every single week and talk about your writing. We talk about different aspects of your writing, this is all based on Wendy Belcher’s fantastic workbook, Writing Your Journal Article in 12 Weeks.

    A lot of people have told me like, “Oh my gosh, like the thing that was so valuable to me was that I just had a place to come and talk about my writing.” Like, “Oh, I’m really struggling with this,” or “I don’t really understand this part.” Or, “Oh my gosh, like I read this part and suddenly my mind was blown and I made a ton of progress.” Like, fantastic, let’s talk about all of that.

    Jennifer: And just for anyone who’s curious, you and Wendy know each other, is that right?

    Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yep, absolutely. And it’s really fun that she’s on Twitter because you can like tweet her questions about article writing or like, “Oh my gosh, I submitted my article!” And she’s super excited too so.

    Jennifer: Yay. Oh, I love that.

    Lisa: Yeah.

    Jennifer: So there’s writing community on Twitter. There’s writing community on all social media platforms, but if you’re looking for that accountability and that writing community, you can join Lisa’s private Mighty Networks community.

    And if you’re looking for the support to actually kickstart your journal article, you should join her workshop .

    Lisa: Yeah. It’s a lot of fun. One recent person in my cohort, said you know, “Lisa, I’m never gonna love writing, it’s hard for me, but because of your workshop, I hate writing less.” And I was like, that’s victory!

    Jennifer: That’s good. Yeah.

    Lisa: I’ll take it. Yep, absolutely. That’s a win. That’s a total win.

    Jennifer: I love that. Well, if you’re listening and you wanna win too, be sure to join the Kickstart Your Journal Article writing workshop with Lisa Munro. It’s gonna be amazing and it starts September 6th, that’s when registration closes, so be sure to sign up, I’m gonna drop the link below this video.

    Now, Lisa, for people who want to get in touch with you, who would like to follow you on social media, how should they do that?

    Lisa: Yeah, I’m kind of email averse. I’m like the adult who doesn’t know how to email. Hit me up on Twitter. That’s the absolute fastest way to get a response from me. If I could just tweet everyone who wants to email me, it would be amazing. So I’m on Twitter, I’m @LLMunro.

    Jennifer: Great. And your website address?

    Lisa: It’s LisaMunro.net

    Headshot of Lisa Munro looking off into the distance with a gold background.

    Jennifer: Perfect. Well, Lisa, it’s been so wonderful to have you on to talk about writing community, to talk about your Mighty Networks, especially how you don’t like Facebook.

    And also to get into our conversation about adoption and why talking about it online is so important. And why others should consider talking about the things that they’re passionate about, that they find important online too. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. Is there anything you’d like to add before we wrap up?

    Lisa: No, I think that’s it. I’m really excited I got to be here today and talk to you, this has been a real joy.

    Jennifer: Oh great. Well, Lisa, thank you so much. Have a great rest of your day.

    Lisa: You so welcome.

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    Bio for Lisa Munro, PhD

    Lisa Munro, PhD on The Social Academic blog and podcast

    Lisa Munro (@LLMunro) is an independent historian who helps fellow scholars create sustainable and joyful writing practices. She supports novice authors and early career researchers to get their ideas out into the world through writing retreats, workshops, and kind, constructive, and actionable feedback. Her own academic work examines informal imperialism in Latin America. She lives and works in Mérida, Yucatán, Mexico and also helps faculty plan short-term study abroad trips to Yucatán.

    Visit Lisa’s website.

    Connect with Lisa on LinkedIn.

    Interviews The Social Academic



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  • Asking Students to *Really* Read Each Other’s Writing | A Conversation with Timothy Oleksiak

    Asking Students to *Really* Read Each Other’s Writing | A Conversation with Timothy Oleksiak

    I spoke with Dr. Timothy Oleksiak, Assistant Professor of English at the University of Massachusetts—Boston, about two of his essays, “A Queer Praxis for Peer Review” and “Slow Peer Review in the Writing Classroom,” recently out in College Composition and Communication and Pedagogy. In these essays, they present theory and practice for a pedagogical practice they call slow peer review, a different way to approach that classical strategy of writing classes, student-to-student peer review, where students swap drafts and give each other feedback on how to improve them. Slow peer review does have students swap drafts but asks them to spend a lot more time with the drafts than usual, reading them very carefully and thinking about them deeply. Slow peer review then asks students to respond in different and more in depth ways than just giving the writer suggestions. I found the essays really compelling, opening up so many questions with relevance far beyond this specific practice and far beyond even just the teaching of writing.

    In our conversation, which you can watch below, we discuss opera, “the improvement imperative” (i.e., there are more things to do in a writing classroom than help students write better, even as that remains a key goal), and the concept of “cruel optimism” (which refers, in this case, to an unhealthy attachment to certain teaching strategies that aren’t working and won’t suddenly start working through being tweaked). We also discuss the ways in which writers and readers of drafts both participate in “worldmaking.” The idea here is that each draft someone writes envisions a world in which some are included while others are not, and peer reviewers can help writers imagine more clearly what sort of world they’ve built. We also discuss what all of this has to do with queer theory. Lastly, I asked Timothy whether this peer review pedagogy isn’t actually a reading pedagogy. While he’s not so sure, he does have students “read the drafts five different times” and directs students to consider such questions as “What does it mean to be fully human in this world?” (i.e., in the world of the draft being read). Those seem like scaffolds for deep reading to me. At any rate, whatever else this pedagogy does, it does ask students to really read each other’s writing. And that feels extraordinarily valuable to me.

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